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Hello,

I'm a large jumper and am considering getting into BASE. I haven't seen a BASE-specific canopy in my size, and was wondering if a MT-1 canopy could be converted for BASE use?

Also, since this comes up semi-freqently in the skydiving forums. If I thought I could loose enough weight by the time frame I would like to BASE in, I wouldn't be asking about converting an MT-1. I've also spoken with Jay Epstein, and I am aware of the increased risk factors I would be facing as a large BASE jumper.


-Blind

Hey Durango,
Nice to have met you at the MOAB boogie. I think If you are serious..... the right thing would be to call Jimmy at Vertigo (435-259-1085), and have him custom order you the correct canopy in the correct size. Anything is possible .
Like you said before, I always warn Big-Boned people that they don't bounce well. E=MC2 . Just because you are twice the weight/size, does not mean that your bones are twice as strong. Working in extra margins in safety and training are a must. Putting in those extra skydives and Potato-Span jumps to learn all you can about how the only thing keeping you from injuring/killing yourself is that piece of nylon over your head, and that you need to nail the landing each and every time will bring you longevity in the sport. It's easy to want instant gratification, and cut corners..... just realize....... off/no flair landings feel bad !!!!

p.s. Being a rigger is a real bonus in understanding/maintaining you gear . Lucky your already there......

How much do you weigh?

I'm wondering if there are better options.

285 lbs currently though I hope to be down to at least 265 by the middle of next year, which was when I was looking at starting.

-Blind

My concern is how well the canopy will hold up over the long run. The MT series was designed to be able to be opened at terminal from high altitudes(HAHO) and at high speeds. I do know that they had some problems with them blowing up due to PRO packing according to DALILLAMA during a study of the PRO pack(PM him for details) Packing is what the concern is IMO as I have been smacked by that chute due to packing. Now it was nothing like getting smacked under a smaller sabre 1 but for someone your size it might feel that way and you might have some canopy damage. The nose is extremely large on that canopy as large as on some accuracy canopies in fact. It also responds like a pig to toggle inputs which could mean the difference between missing an object and flying into it before inputs take effect. Personally, I would look at a BASE specific canopy first.

having some BASE-experience and - more important - several hundred jumps on a MT-1(X), I wouldn't even think of using one for fixed-object jumping...

The MT-1(X) is reacting very slowly on toggle/riser imputs, it's like stearing a oil-tanker !!!

 

At 265, I'd go with a standard BASE canopy. Get it in the largest size available, and look for one with a good, strong flare. I'm guessing that you'll want the fifth control line, to enhance the flare, particularly if you aren't 6'8 or so (with arm length to match). The added square footage of the MT at that wingloading isn't going to be worth the added danger of using a non-BASE canopy.

I know several BASE jumpers in your general weight range (one has already replied to this thread), who might be able to help steer you in the right direction. If you want contact info, drop me a PM or email.

I wondered about the MT1-XX with a 36'' PC for a one time high 1750' A. I can see the problems with a low close to the object and ground jump with the XX canopies, but what about something like a tall guyed A with a stiff breeze blowing you far from the strike hazards and a large landing area? P.M. if anyone has any suggestions.

You could do that with almost anything. But what's the point? If you want to do more BASE, you're going to need appropriate gear. Just doing a "one off" jump seems kind of silly.

Plus, you'd be tempted to do it again, and then try something else...and all of a sudden you'd find yourself on the roof of a building with an MT1-XX...

True. So your saying if a person were to stick with jumping only that 1750' A that things should be alright as far as gear goes. I am thinking of a pro and a 310 for base gear if I stay in the sport, just would like to get mentored and make a few off this A before I buy into something I wont stick with.

I think that your odds of survival jumping that canopy from a terminal tower with a tailwind are fairly good.

I think they are significantly worse than the your odds of survival jumping proper BASE gear, though.

Note that I am commenting only on the canopy, and assuming that it is in a BASE specific container. I, personally, would be unwilling to jump a skydiving container from a tower of any height currently existing in the world.

Brick,
I'm noticing that your profile says that you have 136 jumps over 3 years. That may be innacurate (notice I don't put anything in my profile). If it is accurate, I would suggest spending a season doing many skydives for becoming very current. During that season lose the weight that your planning on (or more) and you will find gear that is much more comfortable as well as making the hike out of the bottom of the canyon much less exhausting, or ladder climbs or hikes to the top of cliffs etc. Spend a season really "training" for BASE, that way when it is time you can go at it really hard without being in danger due to unwanted fatigue. I lost over 80 pounds in one year, it can be done.
Good Luck,
Paul

Gotcha All I need is something 310ish black with a black container

 

Tree, be nice. We don't know anything about fitness level here, just overall body weight.


Hey, I resemble that remark!

Seriously, if you're going to be fat (like me) you need to be thinking alot, and preparing. The BASE gods do not love us bigger boned jumpers, so we need to work extra hard to cheat them.

I am 6'4 255 Firefighter/Rescue diver. No one said I was going to go jumping tomorrow. And if you were looking for a time line my first jump is scheduled for bridge day next year. As far as harking on the MT-xx it will be here long after your is hanging from the rafters. I have 3 landings on rear risers and have been on everything from a 2 way to 8 way hybrid, 2 tracking dives, crosswind landings, downwind landings, stood up the last 25 landings. I know more about the gear and the sport than most jumpers at my dz with 200 jumps. Every weekend I am finding myself giving answers to higher number jumpers to questions they never heard of. I spend all my time reading, watching, and lurking. Know more about your prey before you attack. Base GOD!

At 255 pounds, you'll definitely want to use BASE gear for BASE, rather than the MT-xx. Despite wingloading considerations, a BASE canopy will serve you better.

It certainly will. And it will probably be jumping out of airplanes. But don't make the mistake of thinking that a good skydiving canopy is by definition a good BASE canopy. The two are entirely different things.

Be careful that you do not overestimate your knowledge. Book learning only gets us so far. Be respectful of those with field experience--they came by it the hard way.

I'm not trying to harsh on you, but I do think you ought to be careful not to fall into the trap of thinking you know everything about BASE. No one--not Dwain, not Slim, not Todd, not Marta, not Adam--no one knows, or every will know everything about this sport.

Yea you are right I know next to nothing about BASE. That is why I stated in my first post I wanted a mentor, but there seems to be none in Louisiana that are regulars. I did not want to come off as someone who thinks they know it all, just wanting to show that just because someone has -100 jumps doesn't mean that they have NO clue about skydiving. I frequently hear people with more jumps than me, not knowing the term for the person that stages outside the plane(floater), and not knowing that when you exit feet facing the relative wind to have your feet on your ass, what a rsl does, most have never packed themselves, what a FCX is how it works, do not know how to flat, brake turn did not know the techniques for getting movement into a headwind, make it back from a long spot, front risering in to get down faster, laying in deep rears to sink it in. I am not a fool I take the calculated risk as most do instead of walking blindly into trouble.

 

Hey, I thought we were flaming the other guy...

BTW, is that your BASE gear in your avitar?

Everyone wants to get into BASE, and I'm sure you know it isn't fixed object skydiving. No matter how much you think you know, at 100 skydives, you are just learning what the term "floater" means, and putting down the guy with 200! skydives that doesn't know the slang...

BASE is a lot of fun, but when things go bad, they go very bad, very close to the ground, with no plan B parachute. Soon, you will have a spinner at the dz, and you will go through the cutaway sequence that you practiced. And you'll pick up the freebag and main in the huge, grass landing area...

You don't get to do that in BASE, think about it...

Not to be a dick, but seriously, don't get into BASE with 50ish skydives thinking that you'll never see your legbone sticking out of your pantleg... No promises either way, but I am getting tired of hearing that "I know I have 50 skydives, but I think I know it all faster than the other guy. I'm ready for BASE". Sometimes I feel, and the faceless-ness of the internet is a big part of this, that some people have no respect for their own safety and health...

You wouldn't have got into skydiving by jumping a plane with a buddy that has 50 skydives, with some gear that he had left over with a DOM of 1980, would you? Its been done, but not by me...

Make it as safe, or as dangerous as you want...

ENJOY GRAVITY!!!

My numbers are low because I essentially had to take a year and a half off to recover from a couple of corneal transplants. I've only recently started jumping agin and I plan to spend the entire winter and spring jumping heavily to get current again.

It's somewhat reassuring to hear from people who are saying that I should be fine under a 300 or so. I'm used to 290's and 300's and am very comfortable with slow flight, riser turns, and flat turns under them. Before I switched to ZP a month back, I was also practicing accuracy and consistently getting within two meters of my target with my PD300. Don't get me wrong, I am not foolish enough to think I know enough already, but it does boost my confidence a bit to know I've already worked at least a little ways towards my goal.

-Blind

"Not to be a dick, but seriously, don't get into BASE with 50ish skydives thinking
that you'll never see your legbone sticking out of your pantleg."..
.......................................................
Don't Sugar Coat, it for him. You want him to go out and get hurt ?


"Everyone wants to get into BASE,"
......................................................
and do you know why he wants to get into BASE ????

Because the, Chic's Dig it.

I know that I got into BASE for the chicks...

Still waiting...

which perhaps wont help you much,in the BASE envioment things happens FAST!!! i have flewn between stuff i didnt wanted to hit,whith a speed that i thourght only i could get in my xfire 99,even as im jumping a Fox 265.

I dont want to flame you but as people says its only to your best.Keep having the villing to learn more dont be in a hurry.Im soon as you got the skills which is recomended and you learned more about your flight people will welcome you to the BASE envioment.But as said you´ll need to learn basics first,none of us here likes to tel if a buddy is dead or hurt.

My surgestion is that you should keep practice landings as you do,perhaps close to stuff as trees or so...Landing at a center on a big grassfeild aint a big deal but it is if you have limited space to fly on and turbulence..
and you should be abel to do this each time.. not once in a while..

enjoy the adventure

Or Fabers favourite, try landing through trees that have a brick wall one side and a large wire fence 10ft away from it on the other side. - Dam! I did not even think a canopy would fit in there! - never mind landing on the ground!

"ITS OK! IM ALRIGHT!"

Notice on the dvd soon to be out that it takes me werry litel time to get my treehucking canopy whith me(yes i got it whith me whith out a scratch,ad as Mac states i landed at the ground standing upbut i agree might abit tightI i jump there again ill take the main lz as i have no more to prove

"Duude-i cant belive you felt asleep after doing the building"-BASE813

My bad. This summer I asked some BASE guys in FL what I need to do to start getting ready and they told me I needed to be practicing accuracy and low/emergency turn stuff under canopy.

I guess I just though tI was working in the right direction. Oh well, even if that's not relavant to BASE at least it helps me be a better skydiver.

-Blind

your not all wrong,its the first steps of learning your canopy
But notice in serval BASE video out there that it usaly aint a big grass feild you can land in..

Most injuryes happens under canopyes,flying a canopy in an envioment were you need to fly perfect you better know the canopy well.

Nothing bad in learning accuracy at all just wanted to make sure that you also should lean it close to stuff..

Tom, if you're fat, then what am I? The Stay-Puff Marshmellow Man or Andre the Giant?



I think maybe I should 'weigh' in on this issue too. For the few of you that know me, you know I'm one of the biggest BASE jumpers out there right now. I jump a vented FLiK 322. The only problems I've had with that canopy are that when I ordered it I didn't get the vents. That caused some issues with low jumps and bad landings. After getting it vented and jumping similar low objects, I have had nothing but great landings. I've also skydived it several times (hop-n-pops) and still had great landings. Since I got the vents added, I've been extremely happy with the 322 and was happy with the landings from high objects before I got the vents.

There is big BASE specific gear out there. I think the FLiK 322 is a great canopy for big jumpers. I've even heard rumors that an even bigger canopy is being put on the drawing board. But, like everyone else in this thread is saying, the bigger you are, the harder you fall. The margin for safety is way narrower for us big guys and that means we have to be that much more on our game. Us bigger jumpers also need to be aware of the fact that we put much more stress on our gear and that it will need to be inspected and/or reparied/replaced more frequently. (Nobady said being fat was cheap!).

How did getting vents improve your landings? A vented canopy (with covers) might pressurize quicker but can't fly/flare better than an otherwise identical non-vented canopy. Did you get better landings because the vents gave you more time under canopy or does it sink better because of the vents?

Will

Currently the largest FLiK available is the 322. Apex BASE Perris also offers a FOX 315. There are BASE jumpers that are getting bigger as well as new jumpers that are just big to begin with...

I think one jumper is over 300 lbs, and he's jumping a 322 FLiK...so it is being done, but by experienced guys, not beginners. Perhaps there are even larger canopies on the horizon....

K

i do agree whith you Will.

i dont think sinking is a vent thing,glide ratio could help on that one,but having compared canopyes in the same size and aprox 130 jumps since i jumped an unvented canopy(undersized)im might not the person to say..

Damn we are almost in Tandem range.

I think that that big canopyes will give most jumpers problems.
The jumper will be limited to jump off some high objects to make sure the canopy inflates before impact.

i think i rather use a smaller canopy and then jump the objects whith realative safe lz´s

but thats might just my desire to low objects...

I would like to see the video were the jumper hurts his tailbone due a PCA from 230ft.. Im wondering if the brakes are set too deep and stall him intothe ground rather than getting a lift...
Personaly i tryed somthing similar while making my new brake settings..
Personaly i do belive that a 322canopy pcaed off 230 ft vented or unvented should inflate and get flying before the jumper hits the ground..

Faber,

lets just say for argument that BASE864 is 300# and is jumping a 322
that is a wing loading of .9317
the recomended weight is about 200# - 260# max.. or .6 - .81 wingloading. (correct me if im wrong)

Also take into account how a canopy is made. making a canopy BIGGER does not = the SAME opening and flight performance.

we do know that
1. fat people fall faster (depending on air resistance)
2. big canopy opens slower
3. no vents open slower
4. FAT people hit harder.

Faber good call on the BRAKES. It is possible that he was stalling the canopy thus not allowing it to infalte.or used too deep of a brake setting.

JUST my .02

Unless he had a custom _very_ deep brake setting, this is unlikely. Factory brakes come set for a loading around .75 or so (the manufacturers recommended suspended load). Adding additional weight means the brakes are too shallow, not too deep. I'd guess that a 300 pound jumper under a 322 canopy with factory brakes would have tremendous forward speed on opening. I'd also guess that the appropriate deep brake setting for such a wingloading would put the tail line attachment points down near (or past) the A lines, when packing--so it ought to be very obvious that the brakes are so deep, even on casual inspection (because the tailgate would have to be moved several inches to accomodate the new brake setting).

how much do you talk about Tom?

I moved my brakes 10cm/4inch deeper whith out touching the tailgate,i do belive 5cm/2inch more will make the canopy stall in opening and i dont think you will beabel to see this diff that much on the lines..

Actualy i moved my original Fox vtec brake setting 10 cm/4inch and only 5cm/2inch on my Flik vtec(didnt remove the 5th line yet as it need a chance)
On both canopyes i do belive a deeper brake setting would stall the canopy.
I even somtimes(depending on the object) takes the brakes abit more shallow if i SL it...(did other make the same adjustments on SL jumps?)

NOTE: im only talking slider off jumps here,the world of slider up i dont dare to comment

Not owning a Flik 322, and not weighing 300 pounds, it's all hypothetical.

But I'd say to properly adjust forward speed in that configuration, you'd have to move the setting quite a bit.

I know that to create appropriate forward speed (i.e. minimal) in brakes on my FOX 265 when I weighed 210, I had to overshoot the factory installed tailgate by about 3 inches.

Comparing my previously unvented FLiK 322 landings to my recently vented FLiK 322 landings - I feel they were the same. I have skydived the FLiK 322 (both unvented and vented) several times and I would say I didn't notice any difference in the landings. Landings at Bridge Day (one year unvented and the next vented) were the same as well. (FYI - brake settings were identical on both unvented and vented slider up jumps.) Thus, I'm saying I don't seen any difference in slider-up jumps between the unvented and vented FLiK.

As for better landings on low, slider down, jumps with the vented canopy - they were much better because the canopy was pressured and flying quicker and thus gave me some range to get a good flare with plenty of lift.

I don't think I can comment about the sink because I haven't had to sink it in on a low jump.....yet.

I would like to see the video were the jumper hurts his tailbone due a PCA from 230ft.. Im wondering if the brakes are set too deep and stall him intothe ground rather than getting a lift...

Could you confirm, are you talking about vents with covers? I have a vented (no covers) Fox '265 w. 5 upper control lines and am quite happy with the steep approaches it allows. Some now advocate against 5th upper control line mods on Foxes, DW and JJ recommended it to me and I've had good results.

Will

All my posts have been about vents w/ covers. Nothing I have posted is meant to be just vents only. In my world, the vents always have covers.

well not if you cantbut then please feel free to mail it to me i can take 10mb,max.

sounds like you didnt personalice your brake settings,i would advise you to.
Also if you didnt touch the brake settings i find it unlikely that you stalled intothe ground as you also say
is this a unvented thing??
I have landed my vented fox on 5 cell aprox 10 times whith great flare(they pop out as you do the final flare).