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I want to buy toggles I can release in case of a slider up line over, but I don't know which brand to choose.

What kind of different release toggles are there to choose between? Pros and cons?

The best I've seen are the WLO ("What Line Over?") toggles from Vertigo. I assume that they are still offered by Apex, now.

The real issue on the ones I've seen is 1 handed operation v. 2 handed operation.

The Gravity Sports SuperToggles have a 2 handed operation. You must release the brake, pulling the toggle off the riser, with one hand, and pull the "release" tab with the other. This will ostensibly make it harder to accidentally fire the release, and also allows the toggle to use a cloth stub (not a pin). In general, I far prefer cloth stubs to pins on my toggles.

The Vertigo WLO has a 1 handed operation. You pull just the tab, and it both fires the release and clears the brake setting. This means that the toggle stays on the riser.

Overall, I personally prefer the 1 handed operation--and the WLO toggle.

And what about HP Big Grabs (slider up line-over mod) by Morpheus? Anybody knows them?

I have seen the WLO toggles from Morpheus Technologies. (I don't remember the name of their type).

They for sure are the best available at present.

Ronald Overdijk

I don't know them specifically. I do know Morpheus gear, and it's very good, so I'd imagine their line release toggles would be quite good as well.

I have seen them, but not used them, and like the design of them.................

but before getting any type of "WLO" toggles, I would speak to the manufacturers about them.............

I was going to get some LRT / WLO / blah blah toggles, and after speaking to some people, I decided not to get them....................

Do you know if they are a 1 or 2 handed operation? And if they use a pin or a cloth stub through the brake setting?

Thanks for any info you can share.

they use a pin to hold the toggle onto the control line, with what I see as a quick one hand release, with a small metal loop to pull to release the control line, and the normal "big grab toggle" stub through the break setting loop.

(not directed at Tom:) As I have said before, I would seriously speak to the manufacturers about having this sort of toggle.........................

Certainly for beginners, I definitely agree with you that a line release toggle is not worth the extra complexity.


Does that mean you have to pop the brakes before releasing the line? Or does the release free both the line end (from the toggle) and the brake setting (from the stub)?


Can you share any of your thoughts on them, and what factors made you decide against using them?

I am a big fan of release toggles. However i do recognize that they are unlikely to help unless you pull relatively high. This is mostly due to a pilot reaction time: equipment would work just fine, but you cannot recognize a problem and release the line quick enough on a typical single-digit canopy ride Line twists will also negate WLO effect.

That said, i have WLO on all of my rigs. It is rather stupid not to use them on slider-up jumps if you are conservative enough to pull above 300'

While WLO benefits and limitations are pretty clear, the only negative side is their extra complexity. They could still be refined a bit, however a current version is not far from perfect. What turns most people off is the need to use Vertigo risers that use a snap. People either love it or hate it. I personally like it. Assuming an equally efficient version comes out for those snapless people, everybody shall be happy

bsbd!

Yuri.

The thing I don't like is the pin. I prefer cloth stubs on the toggle, because (a) they've been kinder to my lines over time, and (b) I've seen pin toggles have premature releases (i.e. toggle fires during opening) 4 times, but I've never seen it happen with a cloth stub.

Once Vertigo toggles, three times Gravity Sports toggles. I did not see the Vertigo toggle packed, so I can't vouch for how it was set.

In watching the C and C2 videos I noticed some of the risers had the brakeline going through a ring similar to Skydiving risers. There were others that were free from the risers. When I first saw this post, that's what I thought it was about, but after reviewing the WLO Vertigo toggles it appears that mod releases the brakeline from the toggle completely.

So now I have some questions:

1. What and why the difference between the brake line free from the riser or not?

2. Are release toggles just a non-destructive way to cut the offending brakeline away?

3. Is the next step to land using rear risers?

4. Tom, you recommend newbies not use release toggles, how do you recommend dealing with a lineover?

5. I have never experienced a lineover and always assumed they were generally due to a line dump. Is this correct? Are there other ways to induce a lineover?

 

i didnt see the vid yet but i sopouse that what you saw were the difference between slider up and off jumps.
slider off the lines are free of the ring

look at his web for a vid called lineover or so,you will see how he nicely clears that oneoh and dont forget to look at his flare,if i just had did so as i had a blown toogle

When jumping slider down (or off), you should route the control lines outside the grommets (if slider down) and the keeper rings. When slider up, you must route the control lines through the slider grommets (in order to drive the slider during deployment) and the keeper rings (in order to prevent a blown toggle from entangling the slider and ruining the rest of your life).

Some jumpers have lately begun routing the lines through the rings on slider down jumps. I believe this is bad practice, as I have seen a slider down, tailgated line over.


Essentially, yes.


Yes. But be sure you practice this before you need it in an emergency. I know many jumpers who have never practiced rear riser landings.


Don't have one?

In all seriousness, I'd carry a hook knife (I always do). In my opinion, the potential for a line over is small enough that a beginner shouldn't add the extra complexity to the system.


I'm not sure that anyone really knows what causes line overs. Some can be explained, but some cannot.

Slider down, an untailgated canopy will have a much greater tendency to line over, and I think we understand why that is to a fair degree, but speculation as to the causes of line overs in general on tailgated and slider up canopies is probably beyond the scope of this thread.

Two willing test jumpers if you send me a set.

I made a stupid mistake May be later i'll attach some pics of it.
I made 50+ slider-off jumps with WLO risers-toggles. The pins were damaged because of the hard slider-off opening. Now they are slightly curved and have some scratches Scratched pins are cutting my slider-down brakes.
The only way to fix it is to replace the lower control lines ans buy another pair of toggles... and to buy regular risers for slider-off jumps.
Don't be as stupid as i was.

Make that 3

"I should have a prototype to jump soon and I have a willing test jumper."



Can I also get in on some of that action?? You know where to find me!