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after a post by a UK friend in response to someone saying they cant freefall they aint interested and this apparently is "purist"......

I am curious.

I myself have never SL'd a jump, as I am with the thought that I would prefer to freefall and not interested in SL. BUT I know people and seen the vids of some very cool SL jumps..... I am just not into SL jumping.......

Purist? why is SL not pure? to me a BASE jump is jumping from a fixed object with a parachute, "FIXED OBJECT JUMPING" - mcconkeys, tards etc are still BASE jumps... you must still know about winds, and the technical aspect of the canopy in the effects of winds around your environment, you must still evaluate the evnironment you and your parachute are in to make a sucessful jump......... I beleive I am a purist, in that I would argue whether a tethered ballon is a BASE jump, or a cutaway from a paraglider is a BASE jump..... to some a low altitude parachute deployment is a BASE jump....... to some it aint......

in the end, BASE is about not having rules or restrictions........ and to say its not a "pure" BASE jump if you SL is slightly narrow minded........

In the end we are all "low altitude parachute deployment scientists" - BASE is just something to give us a name to the fun we have!

would be interested in others thoughts about a bulshit subject.......... just go out have fun and who gives a shit!

LOW ALTITUDE PARACHUTE DEPLOYMENT SCIENTISTS UNITE!!

L.A.P.D.S.! Sounds like a law enforcement agency, I am staying away. It doesn't matter to me if the object is freefallable or not. The only thing that matters to me is how long the drive home is and who will drive since everyone else will be drinking! 1,2,3, NOT IT!!

Hey big fella,

I thought the same thing when I read Zennie's post, what does being a 'purist' have to do with not doing static lines? Perhaps someone can chime in and comment on whether or not the BASE pioneers static lined stuff but I always assumed they did.....

Zennie, didn't everyone's favourite World's Best BASE Jumper (TM) once say something similar?

Gus

I would like to reiterate my initial point that of course BASE is a personal thing and no one has to justify the jumps they make. What interests me though is why some people steer clear of static line jumps. We do (i hope) approach BASE with a logical scientific mind, assessing the options available to us on every jump so i assume there must be a good reason for not wanting to static line an object. IS it the perception that it must be a low jump therefore more risky, is it the added complexities in rigging the jump, is it just a gut feeling that SL isn't a real BASE jump??? Genuinely curious.

Perhaps someone can chime in and comment on whether or not the BASE pioneers static lined stuff but I always assumed they did.....

Gus......yes they did static line . I have some amazing footage of early static line jumps done by Carl and Jean(at the canyon ). Jean was awesome, stepping up to be the first to jump whilst others waited to see the outcome. Carl stood by watching this amazing woman leap into the unknown. His comments to her over the radio after she lands just show how utterly proud he was of her "you had amazing form" i believe were his words.

great stuff

my reasons for it, if anyone cares, is that although i know the technical side of it, and accept people that do, when I BASE I like the feeling and thoughts about leaving an object without any connection to anything..... In my world I am floating at that point, and SL / PCA goes against what I want......... I would never say SL / PCA is not a BASE jump, but its just not my bag, I like to "perceive" the feeling of freedom when i step off without anything but me in the air, its then all about what I do and not what is behind me.....................

I want to SL and do more PCA to gain more experience in other aspects of the sport which I feel I need to round my skills and enjoy other aspects of the sport........ but at a personal level of reason it does not fit me..............

in the end I want to try SL, mcconkey, tards, blah blah blah - as technically I know they will make me a better jumper..............

People who are going out mentoring new jumpers should know all aspects of all jumps as who knows what your student will get into....... some like the low shit, some may like the high shit, - but if your teaching someone and being a mentor then you should know all of it!!!

http://www.blincmagazine.com/...hlight=teachers+BASE

interesting discussion on Mentors......

After having started the thread about S/L'n the low water tower, it seemed to have branched off into a different topic, which is cool also.

In defense of Zennie, having met and jumped with him, I didn't take his "purist" comment anymore than he prefers not to static line.

I will agree, and I just recently learned how static line jumps are very much part of the sport. But then again as one said earlier, "BASE is personal".

To me, here in my small corner of the earth, BASE jumping is about finding an object of interest, and researching it to find out the best way to get off it. I recently took that approach on a short freestander, which I first was going to freefall, but with the help of a more experienced jumper, learned the fine art of the S/L. Long story short, after I was under canopy I had the same, if not more of a statisfied feeling of just jumping off the object I've been looking at for 2 yrs.

The fact that I did a static line instead of a freefall didn't matter one bit.

Rod

Hi Rod

Can't stress enough that this isn't a dig at zennie no more than it is a dig at Mac, who i know, respect and have shared an exit point with on more than one occasion. I just am keen to know why static line seems to be perceived as the poor man's BASE jump.

its not.. i use 2-3 peices of breackcord and 2 rubberbands on each SL Jump,that makes the jump more expencive

I think Zennie wanted to tell us that we are twads that we dont freefall it allBut then again i only defend him becours his my BASE# bro

I guess I haven't been around long enough to have heard past debates on S/L vs. Freefall, as far as it being a "real" BASE jump or not.

But I definately concur, a S/L jump is a "real" BASE jump.

 



Faber, does twad mean twat?

Several years ago the big topic of debate was whether static lines counted as BASE jumps or not.

Um, did you mean to put that in a different thread?

yes you TWADSpeak danish it would be more simple

Interesting Point you have Tom about the pioneers and SL,are we doing the same by TARD,Mcconkeys etc etc?

Several years ago the big topic of debate was whether static lines counted as BASE jumps or not.
What was the general consensus? And was PCA bundled in there for good measure as it is effectively the same?

oops!

but its not bad that thoughts about mentors get a look!

<closes & bolts door as hordes of angry BASEers approach wielding flaming torches & pitchforks>



Gang, gang. I wasn't trying to disparage those who SL extremely low stuff. Like I said in the other thread, "purist" was a very poor choice of words on my part.

Here in my neck of the woods I have more freefallable objects than I can count, so my thinking is probably skewed in that direction. The only thing I've done like that was a PCA from 210, and I was under canopy before I knew what happened... I missed the ground rush.

Now my buddy riggersam pointed out that I'd probably be climbing up my risers if I SL'd from 150. And I'm sure he's right.

Maybe I need to hunt down some sick low stuff to gain a finer appreciation of SL jumping.

Speaking if which... what's y'all's hard deck for SLs?

 
In general (very general) early BASE static line jumps are more popular in Great Britain then here. In the U.S. direct bag is the way most new BASE jumpers entered the sport in the early 1980s. This followed the skydiving model where you crawled before walking. (Unlike today in skydiving, where you walk first, and then lot's of times wind up crawling later .)

One Brit, BASE 60, remarkably made his very first BASE freefall on his 60th BASE jump. (On a building jump we did together.) But, this is probably due to the lowness of available sites in Britain at the time.

Since then the use of direct bag in the U.S. began to fade, with the sentiment of the time expressed by Rick P. who always said, “I’d rather watch TV, than DB.”

With the types of BASE canopies and containers available today, together with legal sites and BASE FJCs, it makes sense both DB and S/L, for general use, or as teaching aids, is going by the wayside. Both of these methods demand a rigging knowledge not necessarily possessed by today’s new BASE jumper. (Remember, early BASE jumpers came from the DZ, at a time, when if you didn’t totally understand the overly complicated state of skydiving gear, you died.)

S/L, or even DB, will always have a place (BR’s Super Bowl jumps) in the sport, and will always be a tool in the arsenal of the most serious BASE jumpers. However, a scan of the BASE fatality list will show this is nothing to fool around with, unless you know what you are doing.

Nick
BASE 194
http://www.basefatalities.info/

You may be surprised at how low you can static line an unvented canopy. In my experience the vents make a much bigger difference on freefalls than static lines, for no reason I can explain.

lowest ive done were 143ft and im sure ill go lower(how low i dont know for sure),but guess the deck for me will be arround 120ft or so..

Personally I think you should have to freefall and SL every object to get your number. I had almost accomplished that when I got mine, but I hadn't freefell a B. I got to freefall that last object about 2 months after I applied for my number. SL's are often very fun jumps.

I don't believe rollovers are real base jumps, although they can lead to very real object strikes.

You may be surprised at how low you can static line an unvented canopy. In my experience the vents make a much bigger difference on freefalls than static lines, for no reason I can explain.
This is something i have wondered about. How low are we talking about???(and no i won't take this as gospel and go out and do it) Would you, given the choice, opt for a vented canopy for a low SL or would it not be a factor you would consider relevant AT ALL.

Maybe it doen't make that much difference purely because of the very low airspeed a jumper has achieved before deployment on a static line jump. It's got to be more than Ju Ju.

Discounting beach/very soft mud landings, what is your hard deck for repeatable SL jumps over hard ground??? I stress repeatable cos any fool could SL low and break both their legs.

Is this a discussion you'd prefer to have over at Blinc????

I'd take the vents. When things get that low, I'll take every little edge I can, even if it's only psychological.


It's going to be very different for different people. When you're down to those heights, differences in altitude, jumper's weight, launch technique, and canopy type can start to look pretty significant. In particular, I think people tend to underestimate the influence of body weight (regardless of wingloading, it's just going to take longer to slow down a heavier person) and launch technique (a hard launch can leave you still doing a pendulum swing when you hit the ground).

The absolute hard deck for a very light person, under ideal conditions, with perfect skills and a high risk tolerance? Maybe 60 feet? But for me, with my weight, my gear, and my skills? More like 100 feet.

I guess my point is that you ought to work down to find your own personal hard deck. Just saying "well, I saw the video of a guy doing a 63 foot jump" does _not_ mean that I, under my gear, even under ideal conditions, could repeat the jump. There are some things that just aren't equal between jumpers. Good judgment means figuring out what those things are for you, and playing within your own personal limits.

Ah, obviously more testing required here then... let us know when you struggled in a blind panic to get the toggles off and only partially flared before piling in.

Actualy i follow you on that one,but i think mastering slider ups also should be consideret.I like to think at the BASE#s as telling how long a person has been to the sport and how experienced he should be,but at buttomline you cant see anything from thouse #s... should we stop them?heck no,i think its great to have some history in the sport,but the #s them self you cant really use to anything besides estimate how long a person has survived in BASEworld..

You can never have enough tools.

IMO... any way you jump off a fixed object with a parachute and land it is a BASE jump.

What's a blind panic??? You learn that on your FJC????

I don't need no toggle fumble in order to pile in, mastered that one with a straight in approach into wind, both toggles in hands. To do this requires more than lack of skill, lack of judgement and lack of altitude.....it requires a lack of that special something extra.

It's good to master as many skills as you can.

However, the BASE numbers, as they exist, are an honored tradition, and an important link to our past. I believe they ought to stay the way they are. You have to jump from the four types of objects. Mostly, you get to decide if the objects qualify. You say you did it, and when, and you get a number. It's an honor system--and that's how I like it, personally.

Your bath-avoidance techniques are almost as interesting to us as your desparate need for deodorant

....been there, done that.

i like it aswell,dont misunderstand me,people just tend to focus on BASE#s to find out how experienced a jumper is,and you really cant tell..

I think that belongs in the quote of the year post.

okigonna pay a pint for that one,you just need to more your arse closer to me next time i visit

I'll order then.

IMO, throw the technical bullshit aside. If you feel like you're falling before your canopy starts flying, it's a BASE jump. And if it's not. Who cares. It's still fun.