Basejumper.com - archive

not sure if its appropriate... if not tome delete it

but saw this on ebay... 99k for a 300 ft freestander

http://cgi.ebay.com/...&item=5712415339

even comes with land

haha thats awesome So if you owned it and the land would it be totally legal to jump from?

Yep.

Too bad it's in Mississippi.

I've got a local tower just like this one (judging from their pics) and it's well suited for BASE. You can actually launch from one the four repeaters at the top, if they're not hot.

Get your checkbooks out, kiddies.

man oh man.... anybody wana put some money together to have a dedicated site?

you could buy it, take the tower down, move it to where you want, then sell the land.

cough cough, I suggest TEXAS or NC or ORegon

How much would it cost to pour an appropriate pad for a freestander? I know the anchors for a guyed tower are _expensive_, and you (obviously) can't move them with the tower.

Dismantling, moving, and reassembling a tower is going to be very expensive (more than the cost of the tower itself). There have been plenty of towers that were offered "Free" to anyone who would tear it down and haul it away, but it still proved too expensive.

There's a plot of land for sale here in TX that a bunch of us have been interested in for some time.

It has the anchors already in place... just no tower. We've been trying to find a way to get an old dismantled tower on the cheap and get it assembled for a while now.

As with most things, money is the big sticking point.

There have been many towers for sale on Ebay. One guy has them already disassembled and ready for transport. Recently he had a 475' freestander ready to go for $85,000. I'll have to agree with 428 that these are nice jumping platforms, we have more than a few around my area that are sweet to flik from. Oh, the guy I've been watching is in TX....he also at one time had a 700-800 footer with an elevator that no one bid on... maybe he still has it??
I'm ready to pitch in my share

570

Assuming that the venture had to have a commercial element to support the investment, is such a business even vaguely economically viable? i.e. are there enough jumpers (and prospective jumpers) to recoup the investment?

Maybe. Maybe not. I think you'd want to also rent space on the tower to "normal" users. Things like microwave relay dishes that are directional don't present any significant health hazard to jumpers on the tower.

800 W/elevator? now that would rock.
Though even if you had a tower without one, you could jimi a getto elevator pretty easy.

a wench with a loooooooong cable and a couple pulleys...

only thing would be to win the lottery or find some very open investors....

I shared this thought with someone a few months back and I guess now isn't a bad time to bring it up. Keep in mind that I haven't thought this through or researched it more than what I'm putting down here:

You buy enough land to support the use of a 2000' tower somewhere in the middle of nowhere and get FAA approval for a 2000' tower in that location. Rather than try to throw a LOT of money at a 2000' tower up front, you just purchase and erect the first 500' of a tower that is engineered to go to 2000'. Install an elevator and a "donut" at 500' and you're in operation. Like Tom suggested, lease some tower space to some "jumper-friendly" communication equipment. Since you're not going fly too far from a 500' tower, you don't need ALL that land initially, so you lease part of it out for crops or something on an annual renewal basis. I don't know what you'd charge for lifts to 500', but we're starting slow here..

As revenue begins being generated, you purchase and erect an additional 500', add a "donut" at the 1000' level and extend the elevator up to that height. Consider cutting back how much land you lease out the following year. Interest from communication companies is likely to increase as the tower gets higher, if the location is right..

Continue "growing" the tower to 2000' as revenue allows. It would take several years and would surely cost more than a 2000' tower would cost up-front, but you're splitting the cost up over many years. And, if at some time you decide that you can't get enough revenue to grow above a certain level, you stay where you're or sell it as-is. A tower engineered, surveyed and FAA-approved to go to 2000' might be really appealing to some TV and radio stations - much more so than the smaller towers being discussed in this thread..

I know towers exist with "high-speed" elevators that do about 200' per minute and some elevators have dual cars - one on top of the other. That can significantly affect the number of people you can get up and off the thing. I've never seen one, but I don't see why you couldn't have the tower engineered for more than 1 elevator.

Just some thoughts/dreams ...

Mark

"donut" = sheave



Hope all is well with you... towerpro keepin' ya busy??

Gardner

"Too bad it's in Mississippi." No way, that's not too bad at all...I live in Mississippi, an hour from Vicksburg!!!!

And Tom, you can back me up here...Mississippi is short of objects!! Plenty of A's, but many are either in the middle of a forest, too low (for me, anyway), tightly secured, or the elevator won't work.

Tom, how many states did we cover in a week looking for objects? Three??

Maby they'll let you take it for a testdrive?

I found a ton of objects just near MS when I lived there last summer. Can't be too short of objects :)

We were looking for an object that met a _very_ specific criteria.

And it was four states (MS, LS, AL, FL) as I recall.

The business case problem I see with any of this is suing. Just one person suing after injury or worse could cost more than the tower, land, and everything else connected to either.

And while it's obviously expensive if someone sues the owner and wins, it's still expensive if someone sues the owner and loses. The owner has to pay the lawyer fees no matter what.

I don't think there would be any way to get around this.

You can get around this by incorporating. Every person who wants to jump must buy a share(s) into the corporation.

You can't sue yourself.

Um, by that logic, shareholders couldn't sue a compay they were shareholders of. Didn't the shareholders sue Enron? What about the "corporate mismanagement" suits brought by shareholders?

In other words--are you sure?

edit to add: Google search for "shareholder lawsuit" turns up a lot of cases of shareholder's suing companies they own shares in.

Good point.

You can always fall back on assumption of risk.

I think that also carefully placing the tower in a state with appropriate legal rules would be important.

For example, although it might do good business there, I'd _never_ want to put it in California.

Idaho, on the other hand...

Well the people from enron were stealing from the shareholders and committing felonies. The point with making this site a corporation is they can only sue the corporation not you. They can only go after the enron guys because they themselves stole the money first.

Yeah they can sue the site and force it into bankruptcy and liquidate all its assets but they can never touch your own personal assets. The corporation is its own legal entity. Sure someone could jump and break his leg and sue (for lack of a better word) "A Site" but the point is he cant sue tom or anyone else that may have started it. Say you guys all get some kind of a loan for a million dollars - u still owe 999,999 and someone sues you. They wouldnt get shit and wouldnt even have an incentive to sue you because any personal injury lawyer that gets paid only if you win would see this and realize he wouldnt get anything. Primary debt holders always get paid first.

Sounds like a great idea I think. Limited liability to all parties involved. It sucks u could lose the site but at least you couldnt get your own ass fried. Can't wait to start base jumping. Johnny Utah's class next spring is on my agenda. I should have 150 skydives by then since I am now jumping my ass off.

Whats a crane cost these days?
~J

I think we need to deathcamp a skydiving tax attorney, and get him to work some paperwork for us. I was thinking we should start a non-profit entity, dedicated to the advancement of fixed object jumping. "Keeping adrenaline addicts off the streets at night". Maybe get tymkoder to throw the gayness in there, so it seems more legit for a non-profit. Either way, get a tower corporation to donate it to out to our legitimate charity, and let them take the tax write off. Might be better for them than just walking away or selling it on ebay. If it is a liability issue, I'll sign all the papers the corporation wants, absolving them of responsibility. We'll build a shack at the bottom, and take turns keeping the lights on. Or, talk the fuzz into letting them put their transmitters on it, hang a couple rainbow flags up there, etc...

Find an old smokestack....it's better than a rusty old tower and it won't snag your canopy. Plus, no guywires to deal with. We've got a nice 1240' smokestack here on the East Coast.....I'm sure they could build them even higher and they are nice and warm inside, even in winter.

Regarding someone suing you, just have them sign a waiver.

Wow. What's the possibility of a picture of that?

Here's the smokestack, with the inside ladder at the bottom. Wintertime climbs are a comfy 70 degrees F.

Thanks. Impressive. What's the facitity for (if it's not gonna name the site)? Wondering what such a high stach is needed for.

I have seen several references to one BASE jumper in particular who uses pretty young things to pack for him, but to start using them to winch you up a tower????

that would also be sweet. Wonder what the chance of building an elevator into it?

It's already got an elevator!!!
With a smokestack, you could build several elevators on opposite sides. You could probably build a small house inside the base of the smokestack - it's THAT big. It's been many years since I've jumped this object. Many of us got sick last time due to inhalation of unknown fumes/smoke.

The mystery deepens.

If it was a 3500ft A with elevator to the top in 3mins, no guy wires, a running exit platform, 5 square kilometres of uninterupted soft green pasture at the foot of it and a coffee and donut shop on site, you're shit out of luck. I think it just got pulled down.

there are 3500ft a's?

According to this googled link the tallest A is '2 063.

>>The business case problem I see with any of this is suing.<<

What jury, in their right minds, would award anyone damages for injuries sustained, after that person purposely and willfully jumped from a tower with a parachute. (Not counting negligence on the tower owner's part).

Would they not think, in their wuffoe wisdom, he got what he deserved . . .

Nick
BASE 194

You'd think that, but a lot of juries are just backwards stupid. Like the guy who sued Precision when he blew up his reserve. Guess what, fuckass? You were skydiving! Shit happens. The jury obviously couldn't figure that out. Grrr...

It seems to me that the liability issue is no different than that in skydiving. Have all jumpers waivered. Besides that an injured BASE jumper would have a real hard time getting over the assumption of the risk/comparative negligence problem if they were to sue. You'd also probably want to locate the tower in a rural area, as rural juries are very tough to get personal injury awards out of (life's hard, deal with it).

Edited to add: Shareholders can definitely sue the corporation and directors/officers of the corporation can be held individually liable for the acts of the corporation.

All this liability talk just makes me want to take a nice long bubble bath.

Bubble baths are cool, but it gets a little smelly after a while.

what kinda bubbles are we talking about?

Cockbubbles. As much as this thread has deteriorated, I figure I may as well write "cockbubbles".

 

Have there ever been any BASE related lawsuits, related to injuries suffered on an illegal jump?

OK first you can only gay flame me on my post AM I OK.. I'm glad you KC guys are gay too.. LOL and its DONKS fault.

as far as towers. it may be a good idea to start writing letters to media corp's. many radio stations and tv stations are consolidating and building new A's. I live in nortwest Iowa. we have a few towers over 1000 that are no longer used.
I think they are owned by WAITT media group. Norm Waitt is the owner. I know they also own some media station in the Kansas City area.

tymkoder

I think you can get around the personal guarantee by putting a substantial amount of money down, say 30-40%.

Damn.... I just missed an auction on Ebay for a 700+ft. freestander. That would be a real nice BASE site! If we only had the $450,000 asking price Anyone want to split it??

570

WE NEED TO TALK

I can suggest a solution for avoiding lawsuits in this situation.

Each jumper simply buys the tower outright so that for the duration of his jump he is the owner of the tower. He then sells it to the next jumper. Purchase cost should be an item, a peppercorn would be a nice traditional way of doing it.

If the jumper breaks himself – he did it jumping off his own property – that’s his problem. You simply have to trust the jumper to sell it on after his jump… and at the agreed rate.

2/3/4 ways etc simply split the purchase cost between them and be joint owners. This would not prevent litigation between the 2/3/4 etc but would protect the "real owner".

Want to back up the sale with paperwork – just in case? Simply have a stack of photocopied contracts in a box at the bottom of the tower. Jumper A puts his peppercorn in the pot, signs (dates and times) the top photocopy as the new purchaser and fills his name in as the vendor on the next copy down.

This will need to be verified against local regulations as this has been thought up from the UK. It will also almost certainly need a tweak here and there to ensure it complies with some of the restrictions and various problems I can think of straight away (eg it’s unlikely to stand up if you’ve agreed to transfer the property back to the vendor before you buy it - so trust is essential).