Basejumper.com - archive

 
To Zennie and Tree
First I want to state that I do not work for Redbull. So there aint spin for what I write about them.
RedBull takes care of their athletes and others. One of my friends who happened to be employed by RB came down with a rare, sudden life threatening malady, RB got him the best medical possible and probaly saved his life. RB provides emergency teams for the hi risk stuff. The norm is to have an onsite Doctor. RB takes care of their athletes. The chief of RB has an established fund for stuntmen/women (and their families) who are injured/killed in their profession. Who else is doing that? Before you boycott them, it would be clever to know what they have achieved and what they add to the “extreme” community. Some want to use Felix as a scapegoat for the world´s tallest bridge burning. Get a life, It was jumped the following weekend, multiple arrests and people are still jumping there. Many are quick to criticize the media when the media says not what the ego wants to hear, but jump on the bandwagon if it fits their ego as soon as possible because they are jealous. The media´s coverage sux equally if it is what you don´t want to hear or do want to hear Be fair and check out the facts before the media´s distortion. If you jump with video then you have no bizness ranting on publicized jumps IMHO. I ask you guys to be fair. On the other hand (besides having other fingers), I do understand consternation about burning legal sites, but mostly this comes from bounces nowadays. Red Bull has put BASE in the public eye so that now the public thinks about it being only crazy instead of illegal and crazy.. in retro from before where few had ever heard of the sport.

If you anti “more publicized than me” jealous individuals want to compete and see who is the best, then organize a competition. Red Bull has a lot of power in organizing competitions in case you haven´t noticed. Put up! Or take some cheese.
The choice is yours. Iffin I had Zennie´s or Tree´s attitude I would take them (RedBull sponsored) on rather than bitch about it. But what do I know?
Take care
Space
Still waiting for 428 to respond to my points. Are you afraid?

I disagree. Here in Twin Falls, the general population is more concerned with our disregard for law enforcement than for injuries we do to ourselves. When someone is injured (or killed) here, the general response is sympathetic. When someone is seen as disregarding the police, the response if generally negative.

Culture varies. Your experience on legal sites in Europe may be pointing you in the wrong direction as far as site preservation in Idaho. Idaho is a very "Cowboy Conservative" kind of place. Get hurt, and folks pitch in to help you. Snipe at the sherrif, and folks band together into a posse to string you up.

Obviously you have more knowledge about Switzerland than I do, but I had the impression that landing on the long grass was a big issue for the locals there, too.

Huh? I must have totally missed Red Bull providing anything like that at Bridge Day, when they sponsored it. And they certainly haven't had any medical staff out here when their sponsored athletes are jumping.


I don't think that's the issue. The issue is whether Red Bull jumpers take care of BASE. And whether Red Bull sponsorship actually encourages them not to.

It's possible that RB Europe is acting differently than RB USA, but I don't have any specifics as far as Europe.

Personally, I still like the GoFast! approach better. They open objects and hold invitational events where a ton of people get to have fun. Red Bull appears to mostly want to get their sponsored jumpers off stuff for their own publicity. In my opinion, GoFast! is _far_ better for our sport (I'm talking corporate entities here, not energy drinks).

Hey Space
Perhaps RB then should start to think further about promoting their stuff than they do now..

Its clear to evryone that most of thouse that has been RB sponcored have also done some damegede to their sports by the action they have done...

IF RB made sure that these stuntmen/women would be abel to do their stunts legal and that way not hurting anyone,im sure evrybody would be the oppersit,and be habby and proud about them.But asking people to breaking the law and harm the sport,that is only to make their drink look cooler,which it aint in the eys to the states/countryes and also not the people that love this sport...

Felix could help him self,stand up at the boards and explain but he dont.
I never meet Felix and i probaly never will,but to vitness one thing after the other from 1 person that dont even borther to explain himself,i can only get angry at him..And i do belve moste people out there feel the same way..

If you want to be a public person you should also be abel to get some flames and not only picking the fruit.

That i dont like the taste of RB anyway dosnt mean anything to my point of weiv,this is just thourghts from a guy who have looked at these RB and Felix posts fror the last 3 years...And i dont doubt that RB also make some good things aswell..

I am not aware of Red Bull sponsoring Bridge Day. Can you enlighten me? I think there is a miscommunication here.
take care,
space

 
Valid concern. Petronas is open. who was the first to jump it and therefore deem it possible for competitions to the officials.



If the jealous jumpers would get off their ass and quit eating cheese and challenge the Red Bull Athletes at a competion, then what? Best BASEr wins!

I think it is unfortunate that FB has to travel around the world to promote RB with BS jumps to promote RB in the said country. But that is the job he has accepted.
take care,
space

Hi Faber,
I don´t beleive that Felix has posted in the last 5 yrs. Let me know if he has please. When he did try to explain, he got ripped a new asshole. so he doesn´t post as far as I know.

Felix/RB has brought to the Publics attention BASE more than any other factor if I am not mistaken. whether this is good or bad is an individual decision.

BASE is actually being perceived as a sport now and more acceptably legally due to the publicity and the skills of such as DW, JC, SM, and numerous national associations.
I still disagree with him not getting in touch with the locals.

Take care,
space

if their actions for publicity's sake make it harder for 'average' BASE jumpers to access any object it is a BAD thing...does the public really need to know what, where, when you do what you do?

Why?
Oh yea some people want to live the ‘rockstar’ lifestyle.
Do you jump for yourself or for the money and fame?

honestly their drink tastes like crap and the publicity they gain seems to do very little to actually help BASE (or skydiving for that matter) and more to line their corporate coffers by trying to show wuffos how ‘extreme’ they can be simply by drinking a sports drink. I for one, refuse to buy, drink or the stuff or support the corporation that employs such tactics…

 

Since I'm the last one to have made an anti-RB comment (which incidentally was just goofin' intended to wind up Tree) I guess I'll enter the fray.

1) The fact that RB "looks after" it's athletes is neither unusual nor impressive. Hell, my company is shit but it's still provides medical protection. This is a pre-requisite for employment in my mind not a bonus.

B) When Yamaha found out Jeff Emig has tested +ve for Smoking weed they dropped him like a brick. Yamaha, a key player in the freeriding / freestyle scene are a manufacturer of performance equipment for use in a very extreme sport. They still decided that Jeff's faux pas (which in some peoples eyes gives credability to the bad-ass, extreme athlete aura) gave a negative impact to their reputation. This is a pretty typical response from a large company since it is a contravention of their ethics policy. RB is a multi-national but appears to have misplaced their code of ethics (business AND BASE ethics).

13) I somehow doubt (and this is purely personal opinion based on anecdotal info and media news) that either RB or FB have the spirit of BASE at the forefront of their minds when planning their activities. RB uses sports to sell drinks. FB uses RB to finance his play time. That's about as shallow as it gets. This is not worse or better than any other company and what FB does is really no worse than many other BASE jumpers have done. However, Felix understands before hand that whether or not he gets busted, even if he gets away clean without anyone seeing (unlikely given his mid day jumps but whatever...) that his exploits WILL be broadcast as entertainment. Many get caught in the act and reach the media in our little world. It usually has negative impacts and sometimes we are even fortunate that when things blow over and the dust settles, jumping can resume. Sometimes it's over for good. Object burned for ever. Rarely, I feel, does one of us intend and plan for this to happen for personal gain.

I like RB. Mixed with vodka it makes fantastic Loudmouth Soup. However, as a consumer I reserve the right to try to impress upon my friends and colleagues that I am displeased with the company that creates the stuff and for that reason it would mean something to me if, in support of my point of view, they would make a more informed choice of energy drink. They have the right to say "you mean less to me that my consumption of RB Mr Flicka - please be quiet while I enjoy this satisfying and tasty beverage which is made of ingredients derived from bovine testes". Fair enough?

You've touched on the ego thing. I'm kinda gonna leave that one alone. We all have them to some extent but we don't all allow ourselves to be led by them. Nuff said.

Finally, you are still the BASE Zen-Master General. I have great respect for that. You are standing up for your friend. I have enormous respect for that.

You don't, apparently, know Jack Schidt about the world of energy drinks, their marketing or the mechanisms of international business. I could give a rat's ass about that.

Hope to share an exit and a few laughs sometime,

Respectfully,

Glasshoppa'

Space I do belive we genneral agree here

As Zennie says it can turn out bad some were.example im pretty sure that if any jumper ruin anything or make some media arround my area then im the one that gonna pay the price,as im the only one around here,and people know it but dont care aslong as it can be done in a sudden way.Let me point out that if any should ruin or even get chased off here whith out my knowlegede,and im going to pay the price,then i will find out who it were and turn them into the police to clear my name...

Call me a bitch but getting bad attention is one thing but ruin stuff for people(whith out them knowing about it),and let them pay the price is not a thing i will let happen here.

If im a part of the game.. well then its another case and i wouldnt turn any in,but then they also have given me the respect to let me know what happened around..

Its called respecting the locals,which we all must do to be sure that we can keep the objects we have.If not,expect the same shit your direction...

Space, you're missing my point. And you're being slightly disingenuous to say you're neutral. You're very close friends with at least one RB sponsored athlete (i.e. Felix) and have come out defending him on numerous occasions.

This isn't about publicity or popularity... at least not on my end (though it sure DOES seem to be about publicity on the RB side). It isn't about how well or poorly RB treats it's jumpers... I'm sure it treats them very well.

It's about site preservation and respect for your fellow jumpers. And I've heard too many reports now from BASE jumpers in the know of RB sponsored jumpers having a total lack of respect for other jumpers and their objects.

BASE is about community. And some folks seem to be flipping the bird at the BASE community. Sorry if I flip back.


Huh? So now if I have video of my jumps where I play by the rules I can't be upset with other folks who don't? That makes absolutely no sense.

For the record, I have a TON of very cool video, some of us day-blazing sites. The difference here is that the sites that we have day-blazed are all local sites, low profile, and I know for a fact we're the only ones jumping them.

Those sites are very select and very few and we know them and the surrounding area intimately. All of them, save a B that we do locally, are EXTREMELY remote. We day jump them specifically because we know we won't be seen.

This is not what the RB athletes have been doing. If they were burning their own objects that nobody else was jumping, I could give a rip. But they're not... they're jeopardizing objects that others have a far greater interest in preserving. And worse, they don't seem to care that they are.

I have yet to hear the RB people come in and say "We're sorry..." (excepting maybe Shane)... all they've done is get belligerant and take on a "screw the rest of you" attitude.

THAT'S when I got pissed and THAT'S when I decided to boycott RB.... and I'm still boycotting them.

<opens a tasty GoFast beverage>

Ahhhhhhh......

Wait till you see what gets anounced next week............ I think there will be some Gamin Goin ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jay

P.S. I have a feeling it'll pertain to some type of energy drink sponsored event .

Well how about that the Chief is taking care of others that have no connections with Red Bulll (stuntpersons).
Does your firm take care of stuff like that? Does your firm pour money into helping people out just because?
(general question not directed at you) Is the bonus a bonus if only you profit off of it?
RB would Drop FB if he did drugs IMHO (drugs other than bull testosterone)
FB getting busted in Europe is not normally a prob. As the police only want his autograph and fotos with him...


So the Euro high bridge is still being jumped as we speak. where is the burn? It is nowhere. Every single one who complained about that jump is a person who has not tried to jump it again or at all.



Show me the negative impacts. I don´t see them. It´s an illusion I tellya! hehehe



Give me an example of an object burned forever. I will jump it if I have the finances. IMHO that does not exist. (finances or an eternally burned object.) Finance me and I can show ya.

Fair enough



I am in no way standing up for FB. I am standing up for fairness. Justice. That is what I am standing up for. I would do the same for anyone.

I actually do know Jack, he was the one who brought to the west the first "energy drink" that didn´t use cocaine as the stim....


me too
take care,
space

Goahead,
give up, the site is burned forever. Name it. If i have the resources I will jump on my own any site that you have deemed burned by RB. Which site is it? Lets do it together. Back up your opinion. I never defend FB. I only defend Justice. I am fair. i request you and others be the same.
take care,
space

Hey Space,
I'd be impressed if you would jump the Christ tower on your own. I would show up to join you if you do all the leg work and pay to get me out of jail

570

I don't care if it's burned forever or 5 months. Or, in the case of the Potato Bridge, just bad publicity which may get us shut out later.

The long & short of it is... don't fuck over your fellow jumpers. What part of that is lost on you?

For the record, I don't have as big of a hangup with Felix' Christ jump... unless there were locals or other folks jumping (or wanting to jump) it as well.

Yo Tree,
You are in the land of "Free to do as you´re told" I´m hangin in in Europe where you are free to take responsibility for what you do. I would guess that 10% of the jumps on this side of the lake are illegal and will always be illegal. I do miss the romance of doing a bandit jump with a bro who understands the appeal of banditonious.
But not enough to relocate.
take care,
miss ya,
space

That might be the source of our disconnect here.

The precious few legal sites that we do have are... well... PRECIOUS... so we get very defensive of them.

The illegal sites take a lot of work to get up and maintain, so if someone comes and hoses it.... temporarily or permanently... again, we tend to get a little bent out of shape over it.

BTW. Welcome back to the fold! I heard about your return jump a few weeks back (we have some mutual friends ). Congrats!

The part that is lost on me is who got fucked over? enlighten me please.
Put up.

I have spent some yrs getting BASE recognized as a competent sport in 3 countries. I will never sit back silently and watch knowingly someone burn a site.
Never have, never will. I am old school. I like old school.

Put fairness and justice to your statements.
back up your claims with so called facts so i can demolish them publicly in this forum you chose. It would be nice if we can prove the fallacies together.
August in Italy is looming. Come over. Let us have fun and put the fallacies to rest.
take care, space
Thanks for the return stuff, Highly appreciated

The one that's at the forefront of my mind is the recent antics at the Potato Bridge.

they jumped from the railing knowing full well that that is one of the only restrictions on that site. They ignored the sheriff's request NOT to jump with skis from the bridge... instead choosing to thumb their collective noses at Don and the Sheriff.

Then, when they're called on it, they tried to downplay the seriousness of it and became antagonistic to the jumpers who were legitimately concerned.

Yeah they do but I concede that it's just because it's good for business not because they have hearts of gold.


I'd say that any jump resulting in increased security and therefore decreased accessability is a burn. That's my definition. Perhaps that isn't the view held by most.


See, I told you he was the BASE Zen-Master General.

I like to think that, despite my high number, I'm more of an old school mentality as well.

I was taught by an old-schooler (i.e. 460) and know Rick, Randy & Joy. This sport's history and community is very important to me.

And yes... I'm all for raising the Jolly Roger... in the appropriate setting. I'm one of those mutants who actually LIKES some of the more... um... "covert" aspects of the sport.

I also have some new school in me... I like to do the flippy/twisty thing.

Video has been part of this sport forever (and hopefully I'll show that at this year's BD).

For me the thing is community & attitude. I don't get the sense that the RB sponsored jumpers are so much concerned about community as getting their latest antics on the evening news.

Motherhucker nailed it when he said that Don was the F/U. one should never call the authorities.
Though I don´t agree with his actions (MH) it is a thingy for us to deal with.
take care,
space

No, I'm not afraid to respond, just too busy. I'll elaborate via PM.

Well, there were two F/U's here. Neither one makes the other right.

I agreed earlier that Don should not have called the Sheriff.

Problem is, the Sheriff WAS involved... and at that point they should have respected the Sheriff's request in order to maintain a good public image.

I have to wonder what those guys did to get Don SO upset that he felt he had no choice but to call the Sheriff. Don is a very nice, accomodating guy... seems like you'd have to go out of your way to make him mad.

Pretty sure that was MD from Canada. At least the security guys there told me that he jumped it well before FB did.

I'm pretty sure that he jumped both "event" objects in KL well before FB visited. And did at least a few jumps with full cooperation of the owners. No need for a film crew, no big sponsorship, no thumbing his nose at the building security.

I believe it was MS from Sweden who first jumped the smaller tower up north of there. Again with cooperation of the owners, and again without the need for a big song and dance act to prove how cool he was, get some sponsorship dollars, and sell some energy drinks.

My point is that those objects were already "opened" in that sense. And that all FB's antics were likely to do was piss off the building owners enough to make events harder to organize. Thankfully, a bunch of other BASE jumpers, who are a little more thoughtful of the rest of us (like AB and SS) jumped in there to get the legal events going. I'd say that building is "open" _despite_ FB, not because of him.

Space,

The point is not that you could do a one off jump from a site, given enough resources.

"Burning" means many things. In my mind, having the authorities declare jumping of a previously legal site to be illegal is the worst form of burning.

By your definition, that flatbed didn't "burn" the Captain. I believe it did.

Hmmm. Last year they had a "Red Bull Athletes and their groupies only" area right at the exit point. I can only assume that was because they had given some kind of sponsorship to the event. Perhaps Jason can explain the relationship in more detail.

I must admit that this particular bit of publicity nauseated me. Apparently you had to get some pass from the cool Red Bullers to get into their private lounge area. I almost puked when I saw their bouncer tell Moe Viletto that he wasn't allowed. It seemed insane to me that some Red Bull flunky was telling Moe that he wasn't "cool" enough to be in their private "BASE jumper" area. Space, I'm sure you know who Moe is. For those of you who don't, all I can say is that Moe has forgotten more about BASE than I will ever know.

what-what-WHAT?!?!?!?!?!

Must... restrain... myself...
Must... restrain... myself...

What a bunch of...

Must... restrain... myself...
Must... restrain... myself...

What Zennie says!!!
Yikes! Jason, MH/SM, Whatzzup wit dat? I think fair is fair. It´s time for a "High Noon" Put up or slink into the before with the tail betwixt. I smell a righteous challenge. Make it right,
take care,
space

Tell you what...

If by some miracle I ever got a GoFast sponsorship I'd be more than happy to participate in an Energy Drink Smackdown.

I had a contract with Red Bull for BD2003. Nothing in the contract included Red Bull VIP's or athletes at the Saturday night party. I was just as upset with Red Bull as you all were. Red Bull also conveniently forgot to provide Red Bull and Vodka for the party (only beer), to which I quickly proclaimed a breach of contract. They say they forgot........

However, keep in mind that some of you probably drank $70 worth of Red Bull throughout the weekend and several of you took home some cool prizes (some were cash prizes). Red Bull's sponsorship allowed me to offer more to Bridge Day jumpers.

Rest assured that Red Bull will not be a part of the Saturday night party this year, however, we are currently working out a sponsorship for 2004. So I guess I'm sort of caught in the middle here......

...then again, maybe you guys might want to tar and feather "certain" jumpers when they show up this year?

EDIT: Tom, regarding your Moe Viletto comment....there were no Red Bull bouncers, nor was there a specific Red Bull area at the Saturday night party. You are seriously misinformed about that. The only thing that Red Bull had at the Holiday Inn was a serving bar where some of their VIP's could get free drinks. Moe apparently tried to get free drinks from the Red Bull bar, to which he was denied.

>>>Felix/RB has brought to the Publics attention BASE more than any other factor if I am not mistaken. whether this is good or bad is an individual decision. BASE is actually being perceived as a sport now and more acceptably legally due to the publicity and the skills of such as DW, JC, SM, and numerous national associations. Take care<<<

Space,

Brother, you and I go back a long long ways. Remember {insert flashback music here} when Deland first started using their ditch for canopy swooping and we laughed because all anyone did with it before was get drunk and fall in it . . .

Felix upsets people (including me) for one simple reason. What we marveled in, he profits from. What we parceled out for free in slow measured increments to only the right people (in most cases), he sold outright. What we loved, he pimped.

The biggest turn-off is not his bravado (which I applaud) it’s his lack of humbleness and respect. I’m working the Basic Research front desk one hot Perris afternoon when in walks Felix. (Everybody, comes through that door sooner or later).

“Hello,” he announces, sounding a lot like California’s current Governor, “I’m Felix Baumgartner, and this is my video tape.” He thrusts the video into my hands and moves on. Anne Helliwell, who doesn’t use the F-word often says, “What the F was that?”

It never really got any better after that . . .

Felix is standing on the shoulders of the BASE jumpers who went before him, but he never mentions that. He acts as if there where no jumpers before him. Now, I do realize, and even credit him, with learning how to play to the whuffos in the grandest terms of any aviation huckster that came before him. But, that’s not really the point of it all, is it?

And, I'm sorry, but Felix didn't create the impression of BASE that the public (thank God) now has. That image was generated by 25 years of BASE jumpers standing up for their freedoms by paying fines, losing their gear, and going to jail. Many paid much more then that.

We, me, you, and everyone else, are just links in the chain of pure human flight, nothing more, nothing less. Start freaking acting like it . . .

Nick D
BASE 194

What was the area out by the exit point, during the day? I believe it was officially called the "Red Bull Party Zone" or something like that? Anyway, that's the area I'm talking about.

I doubt I was misinformed, because I was standing there watching the events I reported in my post.

I'm not pointing fingers at you (or anyone else, really) here, Jason. I just thought the "Red Bull Athletes Only" area out there by the exit point was a little rich.

I _did_ get free Red Bull from their bar at the Holiday Inn on saturday night. Fortunately, one of the GoFast guys was there to provide the vodka out of a brown paper bag.

space wrote:
>>Petronas is open. who was the first to jump it and therefore deem it<< >>possible for competitions to the officials.<<

Yo! Space, maybe I'm not quite reading it the way you meant it,
but are you saying that FB's poach opened the object for others?

How can you deem it as a poach? He won it fair and square. Justify your statement Bro and then I will reply.
fair is fair, put up.
take care, I do miss funnin with ya.
space

where I grew up a
building jumped in that manner
is known as a poach.

does it matter if his name were Moe or Victor,president or a farmer??
To me not,i can puke if people who has better names than others should be allowed somthing that people whith out a big name are allowed to...

I know it aint the way you mean it Tom i just saw that one..I think if it were the case(as you describe,but that Jason dont think),then RB should have an open area for all the athlets at the place,and not just open it op to sponsored or high profil names...

I need a sponsor so i can try out BD one day

Just my thourght...

Surely you should count manufacturers selling gear to the ill prepped.



I think that Felix has about 18,000usd worth of gear. “What the F was that” was the sound of 9 rigs and 12 canopies going over to other manufacturers. Forget the exposure.



Actually, he specifically thanks me on every mission for my teachings. He gives credit to me and I have been born of the first generation (meaning I am 2nd) so his thanks are to the guys who helped me, and those were the pioneers.

Follow your own advice, It is good. I follow it also. I aint much good at acting.
Shall every jumper that is being paid to do a spot require a reflection moment to pay homage to the pioneers? I think it would be cool and righteous. But time is money and it won´t happen until BASE ethics are a LAW. Funny how when one hates something they make it come true. They become it. There is a lesson in that, I know not what it is, but it is there as I passby a graffiti every workday proclaiming “Kill All Nazis”.

I am totally agreement with you that what we love, he pimps. Do you do Tandems, AFF?
The romance is going away. It is becoming mainstream. It´s like one´s special mate being bonked by all your friends and then the mate is not so special any more. So is life. Shall we as a collective run like scared dogs for eternity? That is up to the individual. Funky aint it. Making rules for rule breakers. She is not so special any more, but FB aint the source. Only a target for those like you and me feeling that the romance of BASE is gone.
Take care my friend,
space

In which manner? I took the term "Poach" as a negative. Did FB Earn the Title of WTB #1 or not in your opinion?
Take care,
space

Hi Faber,
i was not at all pissed when the secret service didn´t allow me in to Governators (arnie) VIP area. I could have pushed the issue but I was being humble. Forgive them lord, they know not.. check out the self promotion foto. i feel less of a person because of this moment in time. But I did have fun.
take care,
space
space on the Red Carpet

Nice pic.

Da Governator shoulda let ya in. Y'all were stylin.

His loss.

he he

I love that color blue on you.

What a hottie!

Tom, I reread your original post and you were correct. There was a Red Bull area at the exit point as well (with mostly local VIP's, only a few athletes), and yes, only Red Bull people were allowed in there. In exchange for the free Red Bull drink, free DJ and sound system, we gave them a small spot at the exit point. The jumpers have their own area as well, complete with free Red Bull to drink. There was really no reason for jumpers to even enter the Red Bull area, because the jumper area already had tons of free Red Bull to drink.

The fact that Moe was not permitted in the Red Bull area was justified. Jumpers have their own space, Red Bull has a small space of their own. There was also an FBI van at the exit point. I'm sure the FBI would not have permitted Moe in the van as well.

Please note that despite having worked with RB this past year, I do not agree with most of what Felix stands for and I also have issues with the recent Perrine waterski stunts that caused problems. Those issues are being mentioned by me to RB USA.

I noticed a fair number of cute girls pulled out of the crowd and invited in, too. I think it was the "rock concert" mentality of it that bothered me.

I'm pretty sure the FBI didn't hand out passes to their van at random to people they thought looked cool.

How nice of FBI to support our community..If we coouldn´t go into their van they might allow us to jump from the van??(now how cool would that be)
Did FBI give free spy-ware to jumpers aswell

Hey Tom,dont be jealous about the girl thing(to the RB area),remember the real reason we are there are to make some jumpsand not getting sex-related deseases

I don't hand out #'s.
So, did the poach open the object?

Hey JB,
I talked to Moe at the DZ yesterday, he was quite
bemused that he's the subject of internet gossip
and intrigue, but he's still not going to buy a computer.

cya
michael

His poach didn´t open the site. space wrote:
>>Petronas is open. who was the first to jump it and therefore deem it<< >>possible for competitions to the officials.<<

My bad wording. I was surmising (maybe incorrectly) that he had introduced the fact that Petronas was jumpable to the management.
You´re definitely in the know about it. How did it go? Surmising sux.
Take care
space

>>I am totally agreement with you that what we love, he pimps. Do you do Tandems, AFF? The romance is going away. It is becoming mainstream. <<

Oh, what baloney . . .

BASE jumping will never be mainstream, and let’s be thankful for that. And helping people into the skies, as a instructor or a BASE gear manufacturer, is nothing like what Felix does.

Face it, bro. You hooked up your parachute to the wrong harness . . .

Ten years ago I wrote, “The Jolly Roger is coming down the flagpole.” But, I was wrong. Underground BASE is as active as it’s ever been (if not more so) and our dependence on legal sites is hurting more than helping. Make a deal with the Man and you are going to end up getting screwed.

The essence of BASE jumping has always, and will always be this. You’re sitting at home on Wednesday night and you decide to go and make a jump. And, then without anyone’s permission, or support, you do.

Our new found dependence on legal sites (and keeping them legal) is stifling to the BASE community at large. (In a way, it’s almost anti-BASE.) And it’s dividing the BASE community.

And you know, Space, I’ve never done anything but promote BASE from within. You have lost that position now.

Enjoy the ride.

Nick
BASE 194

I understand where you're coming from, and I say this with all due respect, but I don't totally agree with this.

Legal sites have their place. I'd say about 70% of my jumps would fall in the "bandit" category and that isn't going to change.

But having good legal sites is also good for the sport IMHO. When I go out West, I don't have to worry about getting busted. I don't have to jump at night. I can relax, chill out with friends and focus on just the jumps. Plus I can try some things that wouldn't be too bright trying for the first time off an A.

Plus there are many people who risk losing their jobs (from security clearances & such) if they get busted at an illegal site. Having some good legal sites for them to jump is a good thing.

I still believe BASE is as much about community as it is about jumps. When you go to Twin Falls on Memorial Day, or NRGB on Bridge Day, the community spirit is very alive.

I'll never stop bandit jumping... like you said, the Jolly Roger aspect is also an important part of our sport. And, well, there's nothing legal to jump around here anyway.

And I will say this... I'm every bit as protective of our illegal sites as I am over the legal ones. A prime site is a prime site.

Welcome back to the fray Nick!

lurking, jon

But at least you can BASE jump and get a great tan all in one stop.

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this.

I tend to think that legal sites have allowed us a great training ground for the latest generations of BASE jumpers to learn without taking the (often massive) risks that the pioneers (like you) had to.

Perhaps that's just mainstreaming the sport too much, though. Hmmmm.

Yes, no, your sumisery is mistaken.
The management does not honor his illegal jump.
The site was opened to legal jumps by others.

i think your wrong... I think its nice that people has made BASE world a safer place around the world.I think its great that some students dont need to jump off at night off the local A,but can chouse a legal S or E(even as i dont agree that an E is the best) in daylight whith no pressure and thinking if the police should show up.

I has to say i never jumped theese places myself,and im not in a hurry as i see a few of them as DZ´s i like it banditalike but that is me.

I dont think it ruins the sport i think its a new time comming to BASE making it grow(on good and bads),it makes it more acsepted by public.

find the line between you and Space and you perhaps you can see the road were most of us will walk..As i talked to Space i said,its a knifeedgde to walk,and hopefuly it will stay that way keeping BASE as uniqe as it is now and forever.

I´m not judgemental on your opinion of what you think mainstreaming is. It is just not the same opinion it seems. I feel that FB´s publicity conjures an image brought on by the J Geils song " Angel was a centerfold", this is mainstream to me (the sport being the angel on this case).
I feel that 90 jumpers on a once secret site shared by you and your BASE partner, at one time is mainstream. It´s my feeling. I feel that as you said that one´s who don´t do this are mainstreaming the sport. Understandably it can be Baloney to you, but not I.
I just hooked up my canopy to a different harness. One has not the clairvoyancy to determine if any act is right or wrong AFAIK.

I would tend to disagree as this is not my opinion. Tracking, acrobatic and rigging skills are well advanced than only 5 yrs ago. almost doubled in just the last ten years. that is not stifling IMHO.
take care,
space

IMO, all it takes for a company to lose good will among base jumpers is to sponsor a bunch of ego hungry little boys and have them wear your helmets while raping a valuable legal object.

No amount of boycott will get an object back after it's burned - and even if all the base jumpers boycott redbull it's not going to phase a company who's built an impressive international distribution system. I switched to go fast for personal reasons - it just feels better to support a company who hasn't been sponsoring media hungry idiots.

It might if you started an actual counter-campaign. For example, you started a group called "Extreme Athletes Against RedBull" or some such, maybe call your movement "Red Bull Clips Your Wings". You could write letters, appear at Red Bull events protesting. I think a well organized protest movement could accomplish a lot. I don't think we're there yet, but it's always a possibility. I wonder if you could get funding from Rockstar for it?

I don't know if a boycott is necessary, but it'd be a shame to "Red Bull Clips Your Wings" go to waste. Unfortunately, I really like Red Bull, so it's hard to get behind a boycott. Hell, they sponsor FELIX and I drink the stuff. Maybe I shouldn't admit that...

That's it... I'm going for a SumPoosie sponsorship.

When Troy Widgery first developed Red Bull, I remember Al Frisby, at Perris, spitting it out and saying, "Well, now we know what Troy did with all those tube stows he couldn't sell . . .

Nick
BASE 194

I think a screw BASE # would increase your chance of getting sponsored from them....hehehe

I'm so close! Only 4 more objects to go

Oh That's all of em.

Well you could be a team player and help me out in that department.

Hey, I'm working on my master-base # hehehe...

Nick,
I´ve never bucked for position. so it´s cool with me. Nothing implied at all. i jes been being me.

Thanks for bringin up some good stuff!
take care,
space

Honor is a strong word for a poach doncha think, to the mangement? The grand effort of Robin Heid (paperwork meister) supplemented by his crew was AFAIK the one who got it opened. My surmise was dissed by others also. So I humbly retract it and buy the next round. Let me know when.
Take care and keep up the good work, all of you!!
space

Hey Space, yes it was Robin who got Petronas' doors opened to BASE.

On a side note, Nick, Troy's drink is Go Fast, not Red Bull.