Basejumper.com - archive

Hey everyone!

I think it is important that each person in the BASE community knows that the most popular legal BASE site, located in Twin Falls, Idaho, is being abused.

There are people in Twin who are continually jumping off the rail and jumping with water skis on. One jumper has been confronted with the local police about jumping with water skis and continues to do this act. These people also had 2 of the local news stations out to film their jumps from the day and broadcast them on the local news.

I have one question for these men. Why ruin such a wonderful object for jumpers and future jumpers? You aren't doing any favors for the BASE community.

Meghan

"Live like you are dying."

Who are they?

 

What´s the problem about jumping with water skis?
I understand the other concerns.
take care,
space

After the first jump with the water skis the police asked them not to do it again. After that, they repeated the water ski jump with the local TV news cameras present.

That's the problem.

As much as I believe in respecting the locals the Potato bridge belongs to everyone. It would be MORE than a shame if that site was burned.
Why the hell would you jump with water skis anyway?

~Meghan rocked while we were in TF for Mem Day! and she keeps coming through. Thanks for the heads up.
(I was part of Johnny's crew that week)
~J

OK, here's the names:

Shane McConkey, JT Holmes. Possibly a third jumper (I'm sure we can all guess who the possible is, but let me check and see if he was there).

Comments from Shane or JT?

I'll try to chat with Shane tonight and see if I can post an update.

In reference to the Felix thread: Interesting that this crew is also sponsored by Red Bull. Perhaps it's time to organize a more effective anti-Red Bull campaign?

I can guarantee one thing.

If anyone ever successfully manages to burn the Potato Bridge, what happens next will make the JV incident seem tame in comparison.

It's always sad when a few people spoil things for everyone else.

This is a wonderful place to teach BASE in a (relatively) safe environment. Many people (myself included) travel hundreds or even thousands of miles to learn at this object - it would be a shame if it didn't exist in the same (LEGAL and Well Supported by the locals) way.

If these people are really jeopardising this object then perhaps they were either unaware of the possible impact of their actions in which case i'm sure they'll try to keep the peace from now on. If they really are aware of the consequences for everyone else and just don't care then i suggest it's time for them to think again

It's a site that should be preserved for everyone's enjoyment

I thoroughly enjoyed my FJC on memorial day week ... Please ensure that others have the same opportunity ...

http://www.skiingmag.com/...0%2C478910%2C00.html

Tom,
AFAIK and I know pretty far, Felix has never jeopardized a legal site. If this is the case with the others, I believe you have a legitimate complaint with RB. Please get statements from the authorities stating the complaint and the probable impact and i will pass it on directly to the chief of sponsorship of RB. Just make sure that this is the case. Talk to the guys first find out their side. Let me know when you wish to proceed with this route.
take care,
space

I have to agree. I figure, they let us jump it all day every day, they ask very little of us as jumpers, we owe them that much. The whole thing with the rail is for the reason of traffic on the bridge, which I witnessed being slowed by this weekends rail jumps. Not to stir the pot, but hell, I would LOVE to jump from the rail, and never have, not at night, not in the day. We have a plank that serves the same purpose for aerials, though it isn't as much of a show (which I think is the reason for most of the rail jumps, the show). I have spent a lot of time up there since I began in November, and would be sick if something were to go wrong.

What does it take to get a BASE-style punishment?

Just makes me sick about the incredible lack of respect that some people can show. What was it that you were trying to accomplish?

I have over 100 jumps off that bridge in the last 6 months, practicing aerials, and generally enjoying the fact that it is a legal bridge that I can practice at. I can't even mention how "unhappy" I would be if it got burned.

I think we should not only be upset at what they are doing to us, as current jumpers, but also the jumpers that are still to do their FJC, that might not have the oppertunity that we had at TF...

YOU KNEW IT WAS DISRESPECTFUL TO A TOWN THAT HAS BEEN SO GOOD TO US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Check out the link at the bottom for a video from last weekend, I love the TF bridge...

Ask JV... and his crime would be infinitely less egregious in comparison.

. That is all.

OK, I just got back from the bridge. Here are some facts, presented in as unbiased a manner as I can manage.

Shane McConkey, JT Holmes and Miles Dasher were jumping. They had several videographers and photographers with them, apparently doing some kind of PR/magazine/video thing for use with various sponsors. I believe that the PR folks were mostly there tagging along with Shane.

They were jumping from the top of the rail, which is a violation of one of the very few rules here. Shane admits this was wrong, and apologized for it.

JT was jumping with a pair of waterskis on.

Shane reports that he put two of the camera guys off the bridge on his gear. He called them his "deathcampers." He emphasized that they were not his students, and would probably be unlikely to jump again.

The sheriff came out to talk to them. I'm not certain what brought the sheriff out. Shane reports that the sheriff told them that Don Mayes (the boat driver) had called the sheriff's office. I didn't get a chance to ask Don if this was the case.

The sheriff asked them not to stand on the rail.

The sheriff asked them not to jump with the waterskis on.

I am uncertain as to the degree of confrontation between the jumpers and the sheriff. Don reports that the conversation had a certain "we'll do what we want" tone from the jumpers. I did not ask Shane about this.

After the sheriff had left, the jumpers continued to jump. They continued to jump from the top of the rail. JT also continued to jump with his waterskis on.

After the sheriff had left, two TV news crews came out to film the jumpers. They were there by arrangement with the jumpers. I am uncertain if this arrangement was made before or after the conversation with the sheriff.

The news crews filmed the jumpers, standing on the top rail and jumping with waterskis.

The spot was on the evening news here in Twin Falls. I'm reasonably confident that at least someone at the sheriff's office will have seen the footage, and be aware that the jumpers disregarded the sheriff's requests.

Here are some of my thoughts on this:

I'm actually a lot less worried about Shane putting some guys off for an "amusement park" jump than if he were actually trying to teach people with no skydives to BASE jump. Admittedly, he's done the latter before (when he taught JT to BASE jump), but that was not the case here.

Continuing to do the things that the sheriff asked them not to was really very bad. Doing it with a TV crew there so the sheriff was certain to find out that jumpers were disregarding his requests was even worse.

If Don called the sheriff that was probably the wrong thing to do. Keeping this kind of thing "in the family" is definitely a good idea.

I'll email this link to Shane and JT and see if they want to comment.

Let's try to avoid turning this into a flame fest. I'll keep a close watch on how this thread develops. Discussion of ethics and commentary on the ethics of the situation are acceptable. Name calling and pointless yelling are not.

Thanks!

First of all, I want to mention that I like Shane and Miles. They have done well in our sport and they are excellent jumpers.

However, jumping from the rail is a well known rule. Jumping again from the rail after being told by the cops to refrain from doing so is no better than the boneheads that drove a pickup truck up a logging road to El Cap in the early 1980's (the "Flatbed Ten"). The same applies to jumping with skiis after being told not to do so.

The only punishment this type of activity will result in is closure of the bridge to jumping. We all will be punished.

Shane, Miles, JT: We don't get many second chances in our sport. Please respect your fellow jumpers and the objects you jump from.

A Little History - The Flatbed Ten
----------------------------------
In 1980 the park experimented with allowing skydiving. Some people who wanted to legalize and promote jumping off of EL Cap convinced the USPA to establish legal jumping with the NPS. Reasonable guidlines were set up like permits, license requirements, time of jumping, probably similar to what is happening now with hanggliding. This lasted about 2 or 3 months. There were a lot of problems such as people leaving trash and damaging the environment and not following the requirements.In general many people were not behaving responsibly. There were a few rescues and minor landing injuries but no fatalities of major injuries. While all this was happening 'the assholes' decided that they didn't want to hike all the way to El Cap so they drove their truck up an old logging road as far as they could. This must have been from Big Oak Flat. The Park may have arrested or cited them, but the USPA thought It would help our image if they took action against them and expelled the people involved. Then these people sued the USPA claiming they had no business regualating base jumping. The USPA decided to drop the whole thing. The NPS outlawed base jumping in national parks. Skydivers and base jumpers did not make a very good impression with the NPS and base jumpers alienated the USPA. 20+ years later, it's still the most illegal object to jump from in the US.

I don't care who you are, how many sponsors you have, what color your helmet is, how many magazine pages you appear on, how many giant camera lenses are pointed your direction, or that you wind up on RealTV once in a while. Any BASE jumper who would jeopardize access to one of the most popular sites in the world, in order to improve their image to a bunch of gazers who know nothing of our sport, is an unethical and selfish person.

Everyday the list of jumpers I want to visit and spend time with grows. Unfortunately I've started a list of jumpers who I never want to share a site or exit point with. Some people who are BASE jumping now, some who are more experienced than myself, aren't doing anything productive for our sport. I love BASE jumping. If I had to choose one activity do do for the rest of my life, BASE would be my choice without hesitation. It's really sad to see that there are people in our sport whose self image is more important to them than our community.

That's pretty much all I have to say about that.

I got this via email from JT, who is apparently having trouble logging in here (I'll see if we can work out the login issue so he can post for himself).

And here's JT's response from BLiNC

I think that JT is right, and that drawing law enforcement further into this little family quarrel is the wrong way to go.

The more we can regulate ourselves, the less likely that the authorities will want to regulate us.

 

>>>A Little History - The Flatbed Ten
Jason Bell (BASE428, D-16725)<<<

Jason has it basically right, yet maybe a nod to that long ago era (in BASE time it’s light years) might be considered. There are also some similarities to today.

The Flatbed Ten was a diverse group and “asshole” certainly applied to some of them, but not all. (I wouldn’t call Ray Cottingham that, where it might apply to Dennis Murphy). And a few of them are dead now anyway.

The jumpers didn’t really push the USPA into the El Cap program. The USPA is firmly behind the idea after a legal demonstration jump (that went better than the one done 25 later) where many on the demo are USPA officials. There is a meeting held at Perris Valley in the spring of that year attended by Joe Svec and others from the USPA, and a bunch of local jumpers like Dick Pedly, and Bob Blanchard. I was there because someday I wanted to jump El Cap too. The meeting is called to hammer out the rules . . .

The first rule that didn’t go down well is (jump) boots. This is a time when only students wore boots and a pair of ratty sneakers are badges denoting an experienced jumper. Amusing now that we are all wearing boots again.

The gear requirements are simple and reflect the level of skill possessed at the time. Remember, these people aren’t BASE jumping; they are skydiving off a cliff. A square main and round reserve are required. The thinking is a cutaway would be a low one and a round would be safer to land on the boulder strewn talus than a square. This isn’t as weird as it sounds when you consider many jumpers are still using square/round combinations at the drop zone.

No jumps after 8:30 or 9:00 in the morning. This is one that should have raised a red flag, but we didn’t know any better at the time. Jumps should always be dictated by conditions and not by time. This rule would come back to haunt us.

The jumps are by individual permit issued by the Park Service. That one didn’t work out too well either. If you are a Frog, Brit or Aussie whose visa has expired you tended to skip this portion of the rules.

No Night Jumps . . . Little did we know, that sometimes at night, under a full moon, might just be the safest time to jump. (Especially if you are Frog, Brit, or Aussie whose visa has expired).

Hard helmet, jumpsuit, eye protection, and an altimeter rounded out the rules . . .

Oh, and no group exits or RW.

The USPA printed a couple of “how-to” articles in PARACHUTIST and the show was on.

It lasted eight weeks. The Flatbed Ten is just the last straw. There are numerous night jumps, un-permitted day jumps, lots of RW attempts including a four-way diamond that almost didn’t funnel. And like newer BASE jumpers today, these skydivers are at the top of their game and no one is going to tell them what to do.

There is some inference the Park Service allowed the program in the first place in order to log enough rule breaking to close the park to jumping forever. And we gave them rule breaking in spades.

The USPA went to a position that fixed object jumping and skydiving are two different things and washed their hands of it. There is much grumbling about this after all the guys at Headquarters made their jumps (including Bill Ottly, who had a picture of his El Cap jump the size of the Mona Lisa hanging on his USPA office wall until the day he retired) that the rest of us could just swing in the wind.

Every time we go into some agreement to jump that involves rules we have this same problem. Rail jumping has been a no-no for over twenty years. It’s the rule at Greenie; it’s the rule in the Arizona desert. It should be taught in all first BASE jump courses, along with history of the sport in general. (I hate hearing, this course is just site specific so we skip all that.”)

We have two choices. Either we do a better job educating newer BASE jumpers, or we tell the “Man” that human flight is our birthright and they can shove the rules up their ARSES. If all BASE jumpers followed artificial rules we’d never be where we are. BASE technologies exploded because there were no rules, no permission to beg, in order to try new things.

Nowadays, we must tread more lightly, because we are leaving a bigger footprint. We should protect newer jumpers from themselves and what they can do to the sport. How you do that is another thing.

I think our path lays somewhere between peer regulating and telling the “Man” to shove it up their ARSES.

Nick
BASE 194

Exactly!

Might I add that we should be self regulating everywhere. No matter what your stature is in the world of the "easily impressed whuffo", you still bleed like the rest of us. Bleedin 'em out, will weed 'em out. Lot's of hard-heads out there. Just follow the simple fuggin rules people.

I'm not saying you should go around beatin up (or trying to) all the people that break the rules, but at the very least a good tarin. The boys that took care of JV are, in my book, a shining light of base patriotism.

JT's response in Tom's post reminds me of when one gets in trouble in high school and you try to grey-up all the facts with bullshit while trying to defer the blame to some inocent bystander(Don). You broke the rules; plain and simple. Be a man and tell us all to fuck off or appologize and admit your mistake.

I guess I should have cited my source for the "Flatbed Ten" paragraph and the word "asshole". It didn't come from my mouth, but straight from this website (it's all I could find on the Flatbed Ten). I was way too young in the early 1980's to even attempt to write that paragraph myself.....nor would I call someone I haven't met or interacted with such a word.

That's what I was thinking, you worded it well. I am interested in what Miles and Shane have to say.

If you guys want to pull some illegal stuff, do it off a site that's already illegal. Don't mess one of our few precious legal sites up. Show a little respect for your fellow BASE jumpers and don't be selfish. Think next time before you let all the media and ego go to your heads. You are no better than any other BASE jumpers and we respect the rules so everyone can still jump, please show the same courtesy. I thought part of being a community was helping eachother, not dicking over everyone else to make yourselves look "cool" to the whuffos driving by in cars. It was obvious that what you were doing was wrong and I'm sure you knew it, you may make poor decisions, but you're not stupid. Next time show better judgement, you guys know better.

Katie.

Discussion continues at BLiNC.

reading all this back and forth discussion about what was right, what was wrong, who did what, who said what..................

In the end the only matter here that jumps were made off the rail..............

I live in a different country and I know that you should not jump the rail................

its as clear cut as that too me..................

simple.............. dont do it.........

As a new jumper, I need this bridge (all 20 of my jumps to date are from this site with many more jumps anticipated). Please people don't do stupid things which would jeopardize such a great location. We have been given a gift which should be respected. And to people like Meghan and Don. I want to thank you very much for being such great ambassadors for us towards the town of Twin Falls.

See you soon Meghan (and I hope your jump the other week went well).

 

I was planning on doing the same... though I was also going to tell them I'm boycotting Red Bull, and telling as many people as I can to do likewise, until the people they sponsor act in a responsible and respectful manner.

I like Blue ox better! try it! Monster is pretty good too.
Kick the bull habit!
I'm with you.
Word!
~J

Doing the same. Can you PM me the contact info, don't have time to do the research right now.......more to come..........

Here was the reply to JT that I posted on Blinc...

"Your Bridge? YOUR BRIDGE???

You guys really DO want to get the JV treatment don't you?"

Finally got loged on here. Wow! There's loads of fun on this forum! The following is my post on Blinc:
Alright people, I can't think of any more ways to screw with you so I'll be serious for once and be done with this thread.
As I said before, we were wrong for a few top rail jumps. We've always known about that rule and did it anyway because it sure is nice to jump from there. We waited till there were big breaks in the traffic so less drivers would see. Whatever, this is no excuse of course. I honestly did not think that a few top rail bails would raise such a stink from you guys. We're wrong about that one so, sorry. All flaming for this is well directed.
Now, you all are so quick to judge us and point fingers at us evildoers and include Red Bull in this. Yes, it feels good to be a hater and to convince yourselves that the issues are black and white and to get all fired up to see it the easy way. The reality is that the news program (ordered by someone else, not us) showed base in a very positive manner. It did nothing but to improve our relationship with the town of Twin Falls. We have never been a screw you type of object burning group of guys. I get interviewed and articles printed and TV shows coming to me all the time and they are always asking me to talk about base as well as skiing. I make a point to always do my best to show base in a positive manner. Even the visitors center employee ladies came out an did some interviews about our presence in Twin Falls. They were very positive and even started taking our pictures and asking us to sign them for the visitors center. It was pretty classic! You are wrong to call us object burners. Make no mistake, I only take the screw you attitude on this forum because there are so many whining crybabies over-thinking and getting all heated up over things they no nothing about and most importantly were not there for. It really gives me pleasure to get your goats.
I find it interesting that you are all so happy to flame us but there has been almost no conversation about Don. You must realize that Don's crime was far worse than ours. Don's actions are going to burn the Perrine quicker than ours. Again, I have respect for Don for all he has done for us with his service and with his interaction with the city. However, I now must severely question his interaction with the city based on what he recently did. The cops told us directly that he was the informant about the water skiing problem. A rule he decided to make up. Who is he to make up rules for us? One of the people who should have a say in it of course but never the only one. He alone should not just decide that we can't do something because he thinks it is dangerous. Jumping with water skis is not that big a deal. Its actually pretty easy and really fun. We do not need more rules at the Perrine. More rules means more rules people will break and then we end up arguing them on the crybaby board and possibly Don calling the police on us again. The most important thing is to keep the police and the town of Twin Falls out of all issues involving us base jumpers. Otherwise the town starts talking about it again and it puts the idea of closing the bridge to us in their heads again. We need to address issues ourselves. This is what you all are attempting to do here on this board. The Perrine bridge is not getting burned. You people are again using these forums to blow stuff out of proportion and irritate your selves.
By the way, all of Red Bull North America's base projects have portrayed base in a positive light. None of them have been damaging to objects or the sport. We recently did a demo off the Trump Marina building in Atlantic City NJ. on July 3rd. Charles Bryan and Miles Daisher jumped the 300 foot B in front of many spectators. Hopefully this will set an example for more possible legal building jumps. This is one of Red Bull North America's missions right now.
Phew! Longest post I've ever made. Being an anal retentive base board geek really takes a lot of time out of your day. I'm atta here.
Shane McConkey

Saucerboy,

Thanks for the honest and sincere update on the P-Rine . Where does it stand at the moment with the water skiis ? Cause I've got to tell you , that looks like fun. Mik

You must realize that Don's crime was far worse than ours. Don's actions are going to burn the Perrine quicker than ours. Again, I have respect for Don for all he has done for us with his service and with his interaction with the city.

Don is one of the reasons that there is still jumping at the Perrine, and he is a respected local. Even if he was out of line (and I;m not saying that he was) then it's still a good idea for us to try our utmost to keep him happy, not flagrantly disregard his input.

We are ambassadors everywhere we go... Like it or not, in an environment where we are trying to drum up more legal objects and corporate support, you even more than us should be following the rules at established sites. If you open your own sites then you can make your own.

I guess that's the unfortunate part of being high profile (rather than unknown) basejumpers.

Shane, thanks for clarifying where you stand on things. For the record, JT and Jimmy have appalled me far more than you.

I agree with Shane that unless what they were doing was clearly illegal, then Don should not have gotten the Sheriff involved. This isn't Don's bridge either, and it isn't up to him to set the rules... it's the city of Twin Falls and the state of Idaho.

That said, if a Twin Falls Sheriff comes up to you and asks you to not do something, the better part of valor would be to do as he requests. If you don't like it, take it up with the state or city council... but don't thumb your nose at him and do what he just asked you not to. That's bad PR and just bad common sense.

Case in point...

Tom, me, and several other folks spent the better part of two days designing and building a platform that would hold 3 people (for the initial purpose of putting Russell off, but later for non-paralyzed jumpers). Some asshat complained to the sheriff that our restraining straps were blocking the walkway.

The sheriff showed up and asked us to take the platform down (after we put Russell off).

Now, we could have taken the "screw you, there's nothing prohibiting us from doing this" approach, or we could have taken it down in order to maintain good relations with the city.

Care to take a guess as to which option we chose?

Still, if the sherrif asks you to stop doing something, continuing to do it just seems like a bad idea--regardless of the circumstances leading up to his request.

Hey mister ! answer me in this public forum. let the world see that you are the man!
take care,
space

I think you have the wrong thread, Space.
I neglected to answer you in the "Felix In The News" thread. Please post your request in that thread please

MDBASE said . . .

>I love base like a fat kid loves cake<

That's a Nugget . . .

Nick
BASE 194

It's a lyric from a 50 cent song, "I love ya like a fat kid love cake"

My husband said it to me during at our wedding.
Very romantic...

Yup , that'a whur I got it from.

Why? you didn´t answer on that thread. I am being totally fair IMHO. discuss the points if you have an opinion as I asked you please, here is a repost on this thread of the points.
" So you never responded to my question in "point c." or responded to "b" or "d.", Jason.
I´ll briefly outline it again, as I would like to ask your opinion on these points.
Point b. Felix opened his site to the world.. What do you think about this? Privately owned and you and all others have permission to jump there. Is this a future of legal BASE?
Point c. How is one to know who did the highest, lowest, longest etc if it´s not documented in an accessable manner? How does one document it in an accessable manner? (Felix does have documentation on his jump). What about the johnny-come-lately record breakers, even you didn´t know about the last 2 that were since year 2000. How would one rectify this lack of info?
Point d. Read the starter post again. What makes people jump to conclusions faster than exciting journalism? You got taken in by it too. Why are people so gullible to the media´s entertainment? McCordia seems to me like he is objective in stating what he saw on Dutch TV. How do we prevent this, Should we? Do we need to have a figure to poke fun at as Manbird said?

Jason, you are highly experienced in not only the sport but adminstration of it also. What would you do? I respect your opinion and am interested in your ideas.
take care,
space"

I just did a mission with Stuntmonkey in Greece, He asked that documentation of the lowest jump be provided to him and he will back off on his claim. fair is fair. If you want to check out the most realistic version of his jump in the other thread, then check this site out.
clicky
His age and jump dates are incorrect.
take care,
space

Why on earth would you discourage one of the very few Corporate Sponsors to quit dumping money into your sport?

Don't you think that sponsorships and Event Hosting is a positive thing for the sport of BASE?

Wouldn't it be nice to have a legal day off a big bridge in Cali, for example. It's possible, and has happened, but it takes bank to sponsor that kind of event.

Red Bull is one of the very few companies outside the industry to put money into the sport. Do you really want to blow that scene?

Put down the pen. Get off the keyboard, and go flick with these guys, then sort it out face to face. Man to man. Hate breeds hate, but love is contagious.

Not necessarily. Sponsorships, money, corporate influence... All of these things have influences on sports they touch. Those influences can be both positive and negative. I would definitely not say that they are universally positive.

If anything, that jump with skis looks stupid anyways. Granted I'm no skygod or anything, but a nice aerial is imho 100 times more impressive than some bullshit ski jump that looks stupid.

That does not matter at all!
You have no idea how much hate and devil mail I got from various relideous groups for the Jesus jump.
Just because you didin't jeopardize a legal site, you still showed the world what _ALL_ base jumpers are like.

When 1 person does something negative, we all look bad. Like it or not, what 1 person does effects the entire community.

As far as RB, bad publicity is _STILL_ publicity!
Just like when RealTV was ripping huge b-holes in many jumpers for a while. They did not care if it was negative, it was still publicity. Finally many people stopped giving them material.

"Various religious groups". Do you mean like these guys
[url"http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0903/redbull.html"] Clicky
Take care,
space

Oh all right, I fixed the clicky.. (put a space before and after the quotation marks.. the marks aren't necessary by the way)

WOW! That link is only the beginning! If you haven't already done so, you should really check that web site out. Sorry to get a little further off the original topic here, but that web page would be hilarious if it wasn't real. (Is it actually real?) The quote that really stands out was:

"This so-called “energy drink” is carbonated bull urine, with lemon flavoring and enough crystal meth to get a whole housing project full of Negroes tap dancing up and down the streets until dawn."

I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I can't believe I live on the same planet as these people! Remind me to stay away from Freehold, IA!

Hey guys,
Are we still talking about burning "popular sites" and egos and why one or just a few people act as though they are above "the law" therebye ruining it for everybody?

Because I heard that a well known base jumper, although not sponsored, was jumping different exit points really close to our most favorite legal site. These other exit points are not legal and draw the authorities attention.

I'd say that if you want to jump an illegal exit point, do it far away from the legal one.

I don't know. Just a thought.

-Jimmy

it is a joke....a some what subtle, but very good one....

 

Oh and I believe that the illegal jump in question isn't actually illegal. I believe you just need to inform the sheriff.

They aren't suggested though and most probably will cause injury if frequent jumps are made. At least one of the sites is very unforgiving. Get a 90 right and you're pretty much screwed.

I didn't jump it in case you're wondering.

Thanks Hookit!
In retrospect, it seems that "a space" is the problem". Hmmmm. Just joking.... I think.
take care,
space

Doesn't qualify as remotely subtle for me. But maybe my sarcasm detector is better than most. :)

we are getting waaay off topic, but i think the extreme depth and detail they have taken the site to fools a great many people, i know christians who have actually apologized to me for that chuch's beliefs... rotflmao...

that is sort of what i meant by 'subtle'

>>Cowboy blazes day because PS called him out in front of everyone and embarassed him. I'm not defending him for threatening at all but that situation was handled badly...praise in public and criticize in private. Now he's got a F you all attitude and instead of bringing him into BASE as a brother he's been pushed out to the fringes. But it's over now in fact on Sunday they were polite to each other. And it wasn't him who packed in the headlights, that was the Venezualian.

 

>>Yes you're absolutely right about that...he's a bit, how shall we say...abraisive. But I'm working on him! I don't like hopping fences at the PT's either.


>>And climb we shall, my friend BTW if you do decide to become a fitness trainer sign me up...I'd like the climb not to suck ha ha!

It's not the least bit subtle.
The trouble is that there are so many genuine nutballs out there that the Landover Baptist Church seems plausible anyway.
-Josh

Feel free to name names and give specifics.

The cliffs in Twin are all legal, at least they were the last time I asked the Sheriff if I could jump from one of them. The cliffs away from town are on BLM land, so they're pretty much in the same legal areas as the cliffs down in Moab.

That said, I agree with Hookitt that jumping the cliffs around there is scary, and silly, and you're way better off to find some safer and easier cliffs, further away from such a nice legal span.