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I've been doing a little reading here as well as on Blinc concerning customizing our brake settings, plus I also got to compare video of someone who's obviously customized their setting versus some of us who haven't at the potato-ville bridge last weekend and I'm really beginning to think that at some point I NEED to customize mine. So I'm curious as to how many people have customized their settings, how they went about it, do they have vents and valves and did that make a difference and what is their philosophy concerning how deep is their settings when jumping B & E (obviously low to non-existent head winds) versus A & S (usually tail winds right).

I'm flying a big boat (which I like). It's a FLiK 293 loaded a few fractions below 0.7:1 and I have vents and valves. BR has delivered the canopy with only one setting and there's nothing wrong with my current setup for jumping at the potato-ville span. But at some point down the line, I will be visiting Moab which will be a whole different ball game. I realize that since I'm flying a big boat, my forward speed isn't going to be that bad, but based on the video I watched from my weekend, that until we've popped our brakes, I'm still flying faster than the fellow who's customized his settings.

I've read that some people like to take their canopies up on hop n' pops and find their stall points, mark them and adjust the settings based on this. But I believe someone also mentioned that they thought this wasn't such a good method for vented/valved canopies. I've also read that someone likes to do a floater in zero to low winds at the potato-ville bridge with video to judge how much their canopies fly forward (this sounds like a good idea, but I'm not doing floaters yet ... but I may be doing them soon). And I've also read that someone suggested to have a whole slew of settings installed, test them out and go with what seems to work and undo the rest. Now I'm not sure exactly what's involved in changing one's brake settings. Is it similar to how the brake settings are modified on a skydiving canopy or are things different for the cats-eye on a BASE rig? Finally if I'm going to make my deep brake settings more deep than what they currently are (keep in mind once again that BR has only given me one setting, not two like some of the other manufacturers), then what's going to happen on slider up jumps? I know some people like to have different rigs for slider up and down jumps, so who knows what I'll do in the future (I am thinking of purchasing more than one rig once I become a tad more experienced).

So what do some of you folks think? Have you customized your settings and if not, why? Plus if you are one of the manufacturers, I'd be interested to hear your opinions concerning the default settings.

Thanks in advance for all those who participate in this thread. And ... I'm not sure how to say this, but I think I'm hooked. Weather permitting I'm seriously considering heading back to the potato-ville bridge again this coming weekend (a 10 hour drive from Denver) and if I do that will make 3 out of the last 4 weekends at the bridge. It makes for a rough day at work on Mondays, but I can't think of a better way to gain some much needed experience.

When I got my canopy, I did some hop-n-pops and it turned out that the factory settsing were perfect. However, I've put on weight since then so I might need to tweak them a bit.

Brit had a really good idea of sort of creating multiple settings by porpoising the brake set line through the steering line. Then you can experiment and find the one that's right for you.

I'm not getting a good visual as to exactly what you mean by "porpoising the brake set line through the steering line". I have an idea what this means, but I'm not going to do something like this without someone who knows what they are doing, shows me. Hey while I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box, I'm not dull either. Well at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I installed these on my canopy before my trip to the potato bridge and the BLM cliffs.

(I just threw my steering line on the scanner for a quick photo)

Mark

Very similar to mine. I have three settings on my Flik 266 vtec, the manufacturer's original is number 1, and I have two more at 4 and then 8 inches deeper. The second setting is the one I use almost all the time. The 1st I use every now and then on low bridge freefalls (especially when I don't anticipate releasing the brakes before landing).

I also removed the 5th control line.

I had three settings on my Fox as well. Actually it looked just like the photo...

i also did this on my dagger......... but did not have much chance to play with my new troll............

I also got to watch some vid of the memorial weekend at that span - and you really can tell the people who have their settings dialled in to the people that dont (daytime vid rocks for this!!)- some people have loads of forward movement before popping their breaks!

............also I found it most strange that also some peoples canopy control was a little bit suspect........................ madness I say! madness!!

"............also I found it most strange that also some peoples canopy control was a little bit suspect........................ madness I say! madness!!
"

A curious observation from a current gimp.

I guess you landed perfectly and then broke your own leg with your bare hands ,across your other knee in a frenzy of euphoria.

Get well soon beeyartch

...........mmmmmmmmmm you have a point!!!

how do you feel it preform after you have cutted the 5th line?
im about to do it myself (its a mod on a fox i will take off again,then..)

Sounds like you really got your shit together. The only point I think that should be made is don't forget that what is "Just right" at one object (height above mean sea level) may turn out to be a deployment stall at another object.

Fortunately, given your location and the altitude of the potato S, you could dial in your setting there (or off of an A at home and _probably_ be okay in Moab... I'd err on the side of more forward flight.

Moab's opening altis are roughy 4500' msl and the air is usually quite hot, making the density altitude of great concern (it can get as high as 8000'+ in hot conditions). Call the ASOS (look up # on aveweb's airport database - I'm not posting it here) there to get current WX info while there.

Opening in a deployment stall in Moab is scary (been there). But, then, a 180 with a lot of forward speed would be scary in some cases too. Advise getting the locals to take you somewhere well overhung and see how your settings fair when you first go there. IMHO the pizza rock isn't exactly the best place for a 1st E as there are more overhung things there that are probably more forgiving 'til you get dialed in.

bsbd,
Gardner

Hi Canuck --

I'm of the opinion that customized deep brake settings are one of the most overlooked things in BASE today. Dialing in your own deep brake setting (DBS) will likely save your hide one day.

A DBS that's good for one jumper may not be ideal for another jumper who is jumping the same type of canopy with the exact same wing-loading. In short, a DBS is very much personal preference.

So how do you go about determing what is right for you? Given that you are visiting the potatoe state quite often, here is what I would do:

Have a manufacturer make you a set of lower steering lines that have multiple deep brake settings. (see what riggersam so kindly posted) It is not hard to have your local rigger install the lower brake lines if you want to save time and money from shipping your canopy back and forth to the manufacturer.

Go to the bridge and try your best to jump in absolutely no wind. (this will give you the most accurate readings) Have someone video you from directly overhead and begin evaluating how the canopy responds. When I do this, I like to do at least 2 jumps per brake setting.

Jump 1: do a go and throw and let the canopy open in it's DBS and do not do anything for 3 seconds (it's hard to actually wait for 3 seconds!). See how the canopy responds to no input. Then perform a 90 to a 120 degree rear riser turn, let up, and then release the brakes and set up for your landing. Make sure you get video from above if at all possible.

Jump 2: do a go and throw and perform the same reaer riser correction as soon as possible after opening. Again, try to get video from above.

Repeat this as necessary through several different brake settings.

1) Your going to get a feel as to what feels right and what does not. And the video is extremely valuable in helping you to confirm what feels right for you and what does not.

2) By allowing the canopy to open and then "sit there" for 3 seconds, it will really allow you to see just how close to a stall point you actually are. (some canopies take a second or two before they begin to stall). And then by performing the rear riser manuever as quick as possible, you are going to see exactly how the canopy will respond in a real world manuever.

3) Doing this in no wind conditions will give you the best scenario for testing.

4) Once you've determined what works best for you, have a set of lower brake lines with your shallow setting and your new DBS setting manufactured and installed.

I know it's hard to find no wind conditions sometimes, but they can often be found very early in the morning (first light) and at sunset as well. Yes, it's a little bit of a pain to do all this, but I'm of the opinion that it is critical if you want to enjoy a long career of slider-down BASE on solid objects.

As BASE 311 and Zennie have mentioned, density altitude will change the way your DBS will react and so will a chage in body weight -- which are things to consider if either one of these leans towards the extreme end of the spectrum. (jumping at say 10,000+ in elevation or a change of 15 pounds in body weight)

Canuck, it was a pleasure meeting you again and I look forward to jumping with you in the future! Keep up the good work.

C-ya,

Bryan

Awesome info Bryan. I am going to print out what you said so that I can make sure I remember it in the coming weeks and months. Not only do I need to dial in my brake settings before I start jumping the more dangerous stuff (like Moab and ultimately the cliffs in Europe), but I also need some much needed canopy control time (ie: hop n' pops) so that I learn how much riser pressure is right in correcting off heading 90s and 180s (of course also learning to fly the canopy backwards). I can learn some of this at the span, but I'm figuring hop n' pops are also the way to go. I'm just a little worried that getting my hands on a student rig at the DZ could be difficult what with summer being here and all the new students showing up at the DZ.

But for sure, you'll see me 1-2 times a month in potato land this summer.

Remember that adding or removing settings will slightly alter the length of the lines (they get shorter when you add a setting), so be sure to test after removing settings, as well. There's really no need to remove them, though. You may as well leave them in, in case you gain weight, or jump at a different altitude, in different winds, or whatever.

Your deepest brake setting should only be used slider down. That's why most canopies have at least two brake settings.

Using a well set deep brake setting slider up will result in deployment stall and/or slider hangup. I put myself in the hospital once by using an overly deep brake setting on a slider up jump.

At a minimum, customize yourself a deep brake setting for slider down use and a shallow setting for slider up.

Tom ... yes I was aware that the deepest brake setting should be used only for slider down/off jumps and that a more shallow setting is for slider up jumps. But since my canopy currently only has one setting (and yes at some point in the future it will have deeper settings) should I use this current setting for slider up jumps? Not that I'll be needing to do any slider up jumps for a while (unless I'm willing to experiment at some point in potato-land). I'm just curious as to what should be done here with the default brake setting.

I've ground crewed a good number of jumps over the past decade or so and have always found the people with customized line lengths had better luck come sticky situation time.

Oh yah and it isn't a static science as you've surely read. Things change drastically from sea level to moutnain altis and cold to hot weather.

Just my two cents as an observer.

Glad to see you livin life my friend!!

For now. You're best off to customize a "deep slider" setting for yourself, as well as the "deepest" slider off setting.

It's a myth that it's ok to have excess forward speed on a slider up jump. You're not _always_ going to be far away from the object when jumping slider up. You could be a fat ass like me, or you could be a rad tracker who is just barely out-tracking underhung cliffs. In either case (or many others) you still need minimum forward speed after a slider up opening.

Thanks for the info. I guess I will initially concentrate on dialing in my slider off deep brake settings, but at some point will also look into slider up settings.


Stalky maybe, but you're not a fat ass (if you want to see some fat asses, go to the mid-west). I didn't introduce myself to you by my DZ.COM screen name during the Memorial Day boogie in potato land, but we did meet one evening at the Shilo while you were packing for the disabled fellow.

Hey Faber,
Why do you want to take off the 5th brake line? What problems are you having with it? Just curious. I have the 5th brake line on one of my Fox canopies and I love it. I like the 5th line on my Flik as well.

C-Ya

I like it a lot. The 5th line in my opinion is unnecessary, and even dangerous if you are jumping in areas where the landing area in not optimal (ie, Australia). My concern is the unforgiving nature of transitioning from deep brakes to full flight, and from deep brakes to a flare. Basically, with the 5th line the control range is narrowed and much more sensitive to minor inputs. The flare after the removing the 5th line is great. Most (all bar one I believe) Australian jumpers have removed the 5th line. There is a detailed discussion about this on the ABA site.

I guess if you are jumping in places with good landing areas it is not a big deal

5th Upper Control Line Discussion

 

DW (feedback here), JJ and one other experienced jumper (over 500 jumps) all recommended that I get the 5th brake line on my Fox (V tec no covers).

Would the current thinking down under be to rather get covers to improve the flare (while still providing sinking ability)? I didn't want to change more than one thing at a time on my canopy and opted for the 5th line mod first (after asking around).

mine were perfect from the factory. ACE 240 @ . 7

i were just enlightned that i might get a better canopy if i took it off,i will give it a try as i sometimes find myself in places were i wonder how i got the canopy down there,i could use the extra safe margen..

A Vtec Fox or FLiK only require one brake setting. Using a non Vtec slider down brake setting with Vtec results in a surge backwards after opening. I have experienced this with a Fox I had retrofitted and also on an early Vtec Fox which came with 2 brake settings standard. There is footage on the 2003 ABA video of Jesse doing his first jump (a PCA) using a Vtec Fox packed using the old factory non Vtec deep brake setting, the canopy opens and then surges backwards. At Petronas this year I was using both the old slider down and the slider up setting for sub terminal slider up delays, both worked well. I would not use and do not see a need for a shallower brake setting than the single setting currently available on a Fox and FLiK. Basically I have found sub terminal slider up it is possible to use a deeper brake setting than slider down.

A lot has happened since I first suggested removing the 5th upper control line. More jumpers have had issues with the 5th control line and more jumpers have removed it. In relation to DBS the problem is the 5th line condenses your control range. With 4 control lines 4 inches between brake settings works well on a Fox or FLiK. You can then really fine tune your DBS setting by using 2 inch spacing between settings if you wish. The condensed control range of the 5th control line means you have to use 2 inches between settings and if you wanted to fine tune your DBS you would have 1 inch between settings. If your DBS is not quite correct and you have 5 upper control lines it will effectively be twice as bad as with 4 upper control lines.

There is also the issue of lengthening the brake line from the brake setting to the toggle to help prevent stalling on landing. A lot more toggle input is then required to initiate a turn after opening.

I also found that with 5 control lines forward speed on opening would vary greatly with delay time. A PCA would require a much shallower DBS to a 3 second delay slider down to achieve similar forward speed on opening.

The problem I have with the 5 control lines on a Fox or FLiK is that it works great when your jump goes to plan and you are jumping in good conditions. It’s when your jump doesn’t go as planned and you find yourself trying to land down wind or trying to avoid unexpected obstacles that the sporty nature of the canopy causes problems. Jumpers in Oz have found the 5th control line will work great and love it until they do that jump where they have to do the unexpected. There would be about 10 jumpers who have now removed the 5th control line and so far none have felt the need to replace it.


I am not sure how much of this applies to other canopies but it would be interested to find out.
Jason Fitz-Herbert

I was back at the legal potato-land span this weekend and based on my last jump which was videoed, I'm beginning to think that maybe my brake settings are already dialed in. More jumps are needed at the span before I take it to Moab, but I think I'm on the right track. On my first and last jump of the day yesterday around noon (before getting in the car for the long drive home), I went stowed off of the bridge with slightly more than a 1 second delay. I had good body position and thought I had done a nice neat pack job the night before. But I experienced my first bonified 90 degree off heading opening to the left. You can see the canopy on the video open 90 to the left, barely surge at all, then as I get on my right rear riser, the whole canopy pivots on axis (not moving forward whatsoever) until I complete the riser turn back on heading, pop my brakes and go about my merry way to landing on the beach. So maybe just maybe the folks at BR know what they are doing with this FLiK canopy setup and single brake setting. I'm now in a position to start doing floaters (my stowed exits went well this last weekend). So the next time I'm up at the span, I will be doing some floaters hopefully in low winds and with video and I'll have a better idea as to whether or not I should leave the brake setting as they are or if they need to be tampered with.

Good stuff I tell you ... a few more trips to the potato-land span, a few hop n' pops on the canopy to learn to fly it backwards and then maybe just maybe Moab will be calling my name.