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I teach people that they should not jump with the wind going down the wire. I also explain why and the dangers involved.

Hmmm, the poll is 4 with no, 0 with yes. I think Johnny should stop teaching students to jump when the wind is directly down the wire, or even that cliffs and buildings are OK regardless of the wind too. I've been there during two of Johnny's courses, and love the fact that his students are leaving their FJC with 6 days and 25 jumps of video debriefed, instructor supervised jumps. How many have you watched over, and how many of his students have you jumped with?

Tree, seriously, let it go. Find a girlfriend or an exit point, and step away from the computer.

i think it a valid point................. i know that people do jump with the wind down the wire (dependant on factors) I myself have done it in certain winds........ but how many people do it enough that they see no problem in it and thus extend this to taking a newbie out? If the newbie is reliant on your advice then maybe having from the start that jumping with wind down the wire is ok to do is bad practice..... in my ealier jumps i never jumped with winds down the wire no matter if the more experienced on the load were - i was not confident or knowledgeable or experienced enough to do this and only with time did i start to jump in varying other conditions. We all jump in conditions were we would not have done in our earlier jumps, but there are also people that teach that perhaps should not be teaching - so how is it being taught to people? has the mentors own limits been imposed on the newbie? or are the basics taught and then its up to the newbie to find their own comfort levels in time?

yep! still bored!

who...........

i voted it as i jump it but dont teach students to do so,hell i dont even teach students

I think it can be done if the other conditions are ok,and the wind aint strong.

but who am i to tell... i just do what i feel right,if i dont feel that i walk away,no matter the costs..

I don't know shit!!! I have 18 jumps...But I'm still alive
How many do you have?
I am a firm believer in looking at jump #'s! over 1000...still alive? You must be doing something right. do what works for u.
Johnny taught me, go for risers..Not my thing I'll hit my toggles,it's what works for me, We'll see...
Hatin' seems to be Your thing..How's that working out for you? ...Keep it up then.

I always push my student off the platform if the wind is going down the wire. There are many instances when applying an unconventional strategy is required. In my case (and there are many who will attest to this) my packing techniques leave a little to be desired. The theory is fine, I'm just so cack handed that I can't execute the application of the theory too well. On the basis that my packing will give an off heading deployment regardless of wind, body position or the standard 60" cotton and polyester mix (optimized at 40 /60) pilot chute I have no hesitation whatsover in kicking the bitch off (usually on the 2 of 3,2,1 cya for added surprise).

On one occasion I even threw the rig down after the asshole to give him a fighting chance.

BASE is easy. The only battle you need to win is the mental one and people like me can help out with induced exiting techniques. Once you overcome the fear you're done. Any asshole can fall off an object and hit the floor. All you need to do is pull.

Remember, slacken your leg loops, undo your chest strap and punch out that exit to allow differentiation between you and the object for the video. That's all there is to it.

Good luck!

well thats where we differ...........

I am a firm believer in looking at object #'s, type of objects, range of heights, range of configuration..........

on your theory then would you say someone with 1000 off the 486 span be a better advisor than someone with 250 jumps, 70 different objects, many objects opened, nice spilt between SU / SD, terminal / sub-terminal, ???? just curious thats all........my point is that jump numbers are certainly not (too me) a be all and end all in the guage of experience.............

just my bust up sitting on my arse worth......

if you took time to check his profile you would see!!!

i calculate it in injuryes and im about as experienced as i want to be

sure if he had the 250 jumps on other objects of which min 70 different objects

ill never be experiencedthat slider up thing really aint me perhaps i hit jump # 200 whith only 1 slider up..perhaps not,time will show

but hey im just a dane,dont expect much of me

 

Sorry, this is bugging the hell out of me. What exactly does 'wind down the wire' mean? Is that an A thing or just some other technical term I'm not familiar with?

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if you dont know and you BASE jump, then stop going out of the house and go back to skydiving!


if you dont BASE jump then sorry, it means:

on a tri wire A and your looking to jump in between 2 wires then wind down the wire means that when you looking out between the 2 wires then the wind direction is traveling in the direction of one of those wires.......... wind up the wire means that as your on a tri wire then there is one wire behind you and wind is traveling up that wire and spliting the other two straight down the middle of the ones you want to exit between............... (on your back) - hope that makes some sense!!

M

PS: hey JU did i flame and help at the same time????

nice one!

Thanks, it makes sense. I figured it might be something with the winds and guy wires on an antenna, but the first few comments in this thread made me think it could mean another thing altogether.

As for BASE jumping, I'll start when it feels right. Funny thing is I had my first dream in which I actually jumped just this night. If it makes you feel any better, you can still say you flamed and helped me at the same time.

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Careful, the dreams are what got me started.

How do you know? How many 180's have you had with steel, rock or other bone shattering mass facing you??

An experienced jumper, who you sought out for instruction, teaches you to go for riser and you're (without any 180 experience) deciding that you'll go for your toggles. This sounds just a tad arrogant.

Ahhh the great toggles vs. risers debate.

I agree with Johnny... and I've had 180s. They're not fun... especially when you throw in a couple of line twists.

My personal opinion is that you can get on the risers much quicker, and thus take corrective action quicker, by grabbing the risers rather than the toggles. Plus, if you go for toggles, you'll get forward surge when you unstow... this can be a bad thing if you're very close to the object. I also have video of someone who had a 180 with line twists, unstowed too early and wound up making the problem worse when his steering lines also got caught in the twist.

You can get at risers without really thinking. Your canopy should be near the stall point (and thus will not have much forward drive) and you can either do a riser turn or stall turn if you need to.

Just my $0.02.

Just a brief commentary based on a few threads I've been reading here....

It bothers me a bit when I read or hear new jumpers deciding not to listen to their mentor on safety issues.

I'm not saying that you should be a mindless robot, but at the same time, if a person with several hundred jumps says that it may not be a good idea to jump in certain wind conditions, or take corrective action in a certain way, chances are they probably have a pretty darn good reason for saying it.

Yes we make our own choices in this sport, but if you want to stay in one piece for as long as possible, it's a good idea to make an informed decision. Sometimes that means swallowing some pride, listening to the advice of those more experienced than yourself and accepting that you may not yet have the experience to make a fully informed decision.

Fair enough,I agree with that for sure.

Wasn't the point really.

Ok , that came out sounding like shit..My bad. I was taught that toggles turn faster,if you can grab them..as fast and every time. I don't like the idea of stalling my canopy with rear risers at all, I guess i'd take my chances with a little forward surge than stalling backwards, or sinking .
~J

A little forward surge? I'll take the stall over an object strike any day.

Learning how to control your canopy in a stall is a very important skill to have. In a controlled stall you can back your canopy away from the object and/or get turned around with a stall turn. Marta managed to avoid getting severely broken when she had a 180 and sank her canopy straight down.

I certainly hope your not waisting you comedic talents sitting behind a computer for a living. Your one funny mother fucker

i dont have any 180s,neither do i have some one to tell me what to do(even as i might need one time to time),my impression is that if the alti is high enough(again by me it probaly wont be),then i would back by risers,perhaps whith a slight turn and then pop toogles.If the alti is low i probaly first shit my pants,drink a beer and then deside to try the same as above but by landing by rear risers..

does this make sence?who cares? who pack to get offheaddings anyway

LMFAO - well put PK.

Not to say who's right or wrong, but I have to say that risers are my way to go. I recently did my lowest freefall (290 ft.) from my first "B", my previous lowest was a 320 ft. jump from an "A". In what I experienced, I had a 90 left and went to risers by instinct. The real risk came in the fact that to get to the landing area it was a hundred foot canopy ride straight ahead (from exit), otherwise it was gonna be a hairy landing. In the situation, I could have gone toggles and it probably would have given me a couple more seconds for my canopy flight, but the risers stopped any more motion toward the object. I thought A LOT about the jump and what I would've done in the presence of a more serious off heading. I am convinced that if I had gone for toggles (with a 180) in such proximity to the object (being a go and throw and all) I would have absolutely not walked away from that building. It was a HUGE difference from almost all of my previous jumps and it really humbled me and taught me a lot about how the canopy flies. Just being so close to the object and so close to the ground, you would think ground rush stops after the freefall. Anyway, just throwing another point of view out there for a little contrast. Hope it helps. Congrats on your jumps Fire, I heard you guys cranked out a BUNCH.

You must be getting good seperation to not mind a forward surge. I would prefer taking my chances sinking into the ground than bouncing off the object.

The problem isn't the wind direction. It's the fact that people are opeing up with guy wires underneath them. if you aren't high enough to track away, then you need to stage your low jumps so that you open under the bottom wire. At my local A, we jump from around 300ft(unless the vator is on, it's 1400ft). The bottom wire attaches at the 170ft mark. Take a 1.5 to 2 sec delay and open under the first wire. I've seen several off-headings that would have resulted in wire strikes if it wasn't for fact that we are able to fly directly under it after opening. Wind direction or speed doesn't matter in this case because of good landing areas all around. 10 to 20mph winds are jumped in all the time, even down the wire. off-headings are usually the result of pitching too early and the pilot chute is affected by the cross wind. a longer delay insures more vertical airspeed and a more vertical pull of the pilot chute. Jumping from 400to 500ft ("because higher is better") slider down is asking for trouble in anything other than ideal conditions. The wires are the hazard, not the wind. Climb or ride high enough to track away and elimante the threat or go low enough to stage your opening under the first wire(if tower construction and landing area permits of course) Slider up from 800ft?? black death in anything other than strong through the center winds . IMHO of course. This is all still theory

on another note, I think Tree should change his name to Bodie(sp?) and then him and Utah could duke it out handcuffed together at the edge. Just like in the movies

lucky were loads that dont agree you there

huh?i cant follow you in that one...
i will anyday prefere a 4 sec delay off in x winds at 500ft than ill take the same(?)slider up,NOW THAT is asking for troubles in my oppinion..

sure same is mine

i think he means that due to the height and delay you will possibly be opening next to wires.............

Fair enoughGlad you walked away!
Got in 18 jumps, it was the shit!
~J

It was a friggin awesome jump, beach landing, so sweet! I am glad I walked away in one piece too
Welcome to BASE, by the way.

Adam

i didnt read your sarcasm my bad
i think we genneral agree