Basejumper.com - archive

I think most people will agree that the recommended way to go is S A E B, but then there are always other factors that make what we do in reality different to what we would do ideally...

looking forward to hearing which way you went

take it easy,
sam

ESAB

Let me preface this by saying that I'm a skydiver with no BASE jumps. I can see the reasoning behind S first. Care to explain the reasoning behind the order A E B? In some ways all of those are very similar (180 degrees behind you is a wall), but I guess on an antenna that wall is skinnier, if that helps. And I could see putting B last just because in the real world, B's I would imagine are hardest to access and offer least in the choice of landing areas. But fundamentally a A, E, or B in the middle of the desert would be the same jumping experience, no? I plan to jump someday and will probably just go S E. Because of a gov't job, I'm not trespassing an A or B anytime soon...

OK, here goes...
since I'm bored and at work, I'm going to post why I think S - A - E - B is the way to go

so, please keep in mind that I'm a self-confessed newbie and a lowtimer in skydiving and let me know if my thinking is flawed here...

S : first - we all agree, as you can remove any real risk of object strike and you are bound to have a good selection of objects, some of which will have nice easy landings and outs too

A : second - there are quite a few of these around, they generally present less object strike risk than an E (way less than a B), the wind blows through them, unlike E's and B's - therefore the object itself creates no really dangerous wind effects - and in the correct conditions a little wind on these can even be benefitial. landing areas are bound to be better than most B's and on par or better than most E's

E : third - significant risk of object strike, although some do offer nice overhangs, some offer lots of altitude to establish seperation, but that makes your launch and tracking skills that much more critical. the wind conditions are a much more critical factor here. landings can be quite nice, but in general are likely to be less so than A's and with less outs (if any)

B : last - the wind blows around them, and probably around some other B's close by too. access. landing areas are generally difficult. signicant risk of object strike. limited altitude.

but that's just what I think - I'd love to hear some experienced jumpers' comments on these..

A-400ft- Thanks 767
E-270ft- Thanks 811 and 813
B-240ft- Thanks 813 and 811
S-143ft- Thanks Faber you hooked your ass off that S yourself and got #850

besides that thanks to people who have helped this lonley wolf on his trip so fari owe some beers arround,you all know who you are...

The # is a fun thing,i think it says more about the early #´s than the old #´s... now it has become a trend to get a BASE #,instead of experience...
I will anyday respect a person more for his true experience than his #,a # is only 4 jumps to survive,experience is another issue.

I know i have changed that oppinion after i got my #,but its how i see it now...
Dosnt mean i dont have respect for the # thing just that it more has been a race against the clock to get the lowest #´s i dont think that is what Carl B and the rest of the guys meant about it..

That's low. Over water? Land in the water?

I've jumped a 75ft span. Without a parachute. Just jumped feet first and got wet. :)

SL over water,got 4 sec of canopy time and just made it into dryland ½m from the water.I desided to jump it over dryland next time,it hasnt been time yet...

I thourght i should land in water,but as the canopy were open i realized that i might could make it to dryland,which i did.. im sure my gear were happy for that..

I had only made some solo test jumps of my SL setup from 400ft and knew that it would work,as i were really high on thouse jumps...

ohh and #700 were the guy that made that jump posible as he send me loads of breakcord

NO.

Not even close, actually.

The primary consideration here is the wind, and what it will do as it rolls around the solid surfaces surrounding your opening zone. Nine times out of ten, an object strike occurs not because of the size of the surface, but because the wind was blowing the canopy back into the object, or creating turbulence that took control of the canopy away from the jumper.

On an antenna, the wind will pretty much just blow straight through. Turbulence created by the structure is minimal, and you can jump with a good wind at your back. This means that a smooth, friendly airflow will blow you _away_ from potential object strike, making a 180 a much safer experience. The best wind conditions for jumping an antenna are strong winds from behind--which make the object virtually unstrikable.

The wind will blow over the top of most cliffs (some cliffs are more like pillars, so they need to be treated like buildings for wind, and some are in canyons, which have their own considerations). This means that a tailwind you feel at exit can flow over the top of the cliff and down, creating a downdraft at opening. A downdraft at opening, especially at low (i.e. slider down, i.e. those cliffs out in the desert) airspeed can be very bad. As your canopy expands, the downdraft can blow the expanded portions down through the still inflating portions, toward the jumper. This scenario can lead to all kinds of bad things, starting with collapsed cells, and moving up to tension knots and lineovers caused by lines going slack during the inflation sequence. The best wind conditions for jumping a cliff are zero winds. Failing that, crosswinds are generally safer than either head or tailwinds, but analysis of the individual cliff and surrounding formations is critical to understanding what the wind will do to the canopy during and after opening.

The wind blows around a building. So exiting a building in a strong tailwind is actually a bad idea. Strong winds coming around the downwind corners will create rotors, which will roll back into the downwind face of the building, creating both turbulence _and_ a general relative headwind (i.e. blowing you back into the building) at opening. Analyzing the wind on a building is very tricky, and includes the shape of the building, the direction of the wind, and the locations and shapes of surrounding buildings. A cliff in a canyon has many of the same considerations. Ideally, buildings should be jumped in zero wind. If you must jump in wind, be sure you understand what's going on with all the wind, and all the things that effect it, both at opening and everywhere you could potentially fly (or end up after clearing a malfunction, or get blown by the wind) after opening.


Just remember that you are skipping steps in your progression, and be cautious and aware of that. Antennas are far safer than cliffs and buildings. In fact, a good antenna with a strong tailwind can be safer than an intermediate bridge.

Well, I think I knew that all along. But knowing what is safe, and acting in the safest possible manner are two different things.

The order I did the jumps was S-E-B-A. I made my first jump (S) on September 1. I then had to wait about 4 weeks for my gear. Then, I made four more jumps from the same S, then went on a road trip to Bridge Day (from California) with my mentor. My next jumps were, in order, E1,E1,E2,E3,E3,S2,S2,S3,S4,S4,S4,S2,S5,B,A,E4 (where the numbers indicate different objects).

What's the old saying about experience and judgment? Something about good judgment coming from experience, I think?

Interesting query.

For Day BASE I went: S,E,A,B

But for Night BASE it Went: S,B,E,A

S-E-B-A eh?
That makes us 2 for 2 right now,
but the next letter I get will definitely be A rather than B.

I used to be quite set on getting a number with 3 digits, but now I don’t really care what it turns out to be.

I need to feel I’m ready for a specific object and also know that I’m prepared and I know I have quite a ways to go before I stand on the edge of a B and know that I’ve done enough preparation that I’m willing to push off and roll the dice.

So you did your first E around 10-14 jumps and your first B somewhere around 20-27 jumps?

Yeah, that saying, with that in mind, what are your thoughts on the progression through objects by type and jump numbers?

Must’ve been a real bad-ass who got B A S E by getting B-A-S-E…

After my plethora of skydives (99) my jumps were:
A1, (500ft) (First fixed object jump, 100th parachute jump)
A1, (300ft)
A2, (1700ft)
A2, (1700ft)
E1, (3.200ft)
E2, (900ft/2000ft)
S1, (155ft)
B1 (180ft)

(where the numbers indicate different objects).

I would NOT recommend this route to anyone... be careful, ambition can kill you.

"But the good news is, I don't have a personality that's prone to addiction" ;-)

Actually first E was jump number 6, as I recall. And the B was around jump 16 or 17. That old log book is in California, so I'm not sure about the exact numbers.

This is one of those cases where BASE is really, really, a case of "Do as I Say, not as I Do."

Please, don't anyone do what I did.

yeah I saw that and I was thinkin' good gawd.. some folks just don't have any idea how good they got it.

gardner

Did he mention that was with an elevator? And that E? Yep, it was _that_ E...

 
S1 x 5 - 265ft
E1 x 2 - 800ft
E2 x 8 - 600ft
A1 x 1 - 350ft
E1 x 11/12? - 800ft
E3/4/5/6 X 70ish - 200ft to 800ft
B1 hasn't happened yet

^
|_________ BET I know what that smile means!

Thanks again Tom for taking me on a jump I have been wanting to do ever since they made it illegal (again). I'll always owe you for that one. I say that because it is something one can't repay,so I'll just have to owe ya forever! It still brings smileys to my face when I think of it.

later,
t

Why is this famous usa cliff illegal?

It's a long story, with lots of sides and different perspectives.

In my opinion, it's mostly that we (i.e. BASE jumpers) were not sufficiently respectful of the site and other people around, and were not sufficiently careful in our interactions with the governing authority.

If you want more history, I'd suggest wandering over to BLiNC and starting a discussion there. There are lots of folks who can give you the various sides.

>>Actually it no longer works...if you want to jump it now you gotta work for it!

Foolish young jedi... You must learn the power of the Dark Side...

There's a Day BASE? I need a trip to the tater S...

Hmmm, well i didn't mean to cause confusion. I wanted to show that my night base was different, so I wrote it that way to seperate the two. "Day BASE" is just regular BASE.

Amazing how these typing machines never say what you really mean.

t

I know. Just kidding. I was stating my desire and anticipation to BASE jump by daylight through satire. SATIRE!

I got it.

I remember, the first time Rick posted calling for applications for Night BASE numbers, thinking "dang, I got night first--I'd think day BASE would be harder to come by."

On the other hand, I also recall seeing a BLiNC post in which a puzzled Euro asked "is it possible to make BASE jumps at night?"

A matter of perspective, I suppose.

And testament to the differences in attitudes towards BASE in the US and abroad.

I remember my first daylight BASE jump, it was a fun experience, now most of them are early morning ventures to our pet rock out here. :-)

ha ha
i would think that day BASE will be harder aswell...

how ever did any make solo BASE/SL BASE/sub 200ft freefall BASE or the hardest... No video BASE yet?

Oh, the happiness! I finally get to vote in my own poll, as I just got back from my qualifying jump!

so, I went S,E,A,B - just like you, t.

thanks, Hunter, Red Fox and Lulu Fox for tonight..


my night BASE is looking like this: A,B,

I have no idea if I'll get to my night E or S first.

that B tonight sure was scary, though....

scary, but good!

Hm...
What's about the "O" objects?

How should i log chimneys or smokestacks?

So, my way is

Day BASE (got the number much later than completed the word)

Chimney (A or B ?)
A
B
Crane (S or whatever ?)
E
S

Night BASE (got the number directly after completed the word):

B
Crane (S?)
A
E

It makes me giggle when I hear at the DZ people getting excited about making night jumps (skydives) when I just think to myself "hell I would love to do day jumps"

When you have a day jump BASE object in the UK its a real bonus...............

back to the subject of the thread my order in getting the word is:

Getting BASE:
S1 x 6 - 486' - FF - FJC
S2 x 2 - 250' - PCA / FF - thanks 621
O1 x 1 - 220' - FF - thanks belgium guys
A1 x 1 - 225' - FF - my first UK object with only GC
A2 x 1 - 500' - FF - thanks belgium guys
S2 x 2 - 250' - FF
A3 x 3 - 315' - FF - opening my first UK object
A1 x 1 - 220' - FF
A3 x 1 - 315' - FF - my first pure solo
E1 x 1 - 340' - FF - a well known cheesy cliff in UK
B1 x 1 - 320' - FF - solo (telephone GC, thanks 811)

Got BASE on jump # 20 and object # 8

Day:
S1 - 486'
O1 - 220'
A1 - 225'
E1 - 340'

Still need my day B!

Night:
A3 - 315'
B1 - 320'
E1 - 340'
O2 - 215'

Still need my night S

Well at least writing this out allowed me to go over my early jumps and remember the memories!

After about 35 skydives, I was foolish enough to proceed:
E (600')
A(600')
B(280') (airport control tower!!)
S(876') (on the 100th BASE jump)

hehehe... well after about 500 skydives, 1+ year of GC, reading/learning (including 6 months of CRW), I started. Lets just say I was pretty prepared...
A (900')
O (crane, 420', 4th jump...)
S (240')
B (309', jump #40)
E (390', jump #41)

WoO HoO!

nice work!

its a shame others dont put in the same amount of work...... even if it still does not make you 100% prepared! hehehehehehhe

S:486ft
A:900ft
O:270ft
E:390ft
B: last night! 240ft

~J

yet another poor role model...

jump #1 - S
jump #2 - E
jump #7 - A
jump #13 - B

Nice work dude! You gotta tell me about that one for sure. Congratulations.

why, you sneaky little so-and-so!

good thing you're on the west coast, or I'd have thought you were trying to get a lower number than me...

240, that's pretty low.... nice and scary, I bet.

congrats bro

S-486'
A-500' (off of a 2000 footer)
E-390'
B-290'

Congrats!!! It's a great feeling huh?!


it was great meeting you at the turkey boogie... we'll have to make a jump sometime!

hah!... I'll vouch for that one.

FIREFLYR gets mad props for this one. He scouted it out all on his own when he had only a handful of jumps. He took me up to the top a couple months back and I gotta say, the way he did it was quite slick!.

Jamie, Congratulations, you really earned that one.

It will make work today a breeze!
Yeah,F#%&ing awesome!
Buildings Rock!
Hey if you're ever in the Bay Area There's some cool shit out here!
~J

Thanks for not going in on that one! it was a real confidence builder!
As I was standing up there last night I was thinking " This is WAY too low!" I don't think I could do that one without knowing it was possible.
2 way? heh
~J

You're welcome. I should thank you for that one. I wasn't going to mention the part about jumping it

Seriously ,you earned it. It's kind of a nutty jump, but you found it, accessed it and pulled it off. Props!

Funny thing, is a 2 way is actually doable off that one. Hmmmm...

OH yeah....

S 730, 600 to landing
B 270
A 1700
E 390

and a bunch of others in between.

Sweet dude! Im gonna have to hear that one.

would the top guy have to SL?

Nope. There's 2 platforms one on each side of the corner. They face 90 degrees away from each other and have seperate opening and landing zones.

Congrats Jamie!!!
Just started last May and now look at you. Nice work! You are quite stealthy arent you.

The kids grow up so fast.

Given that many of us have limited experience when we do our first B / A / S / E - why should wind be a factor???? Why not take it out of the equation to start with? I think we should minimise as many risk variables as possible prior to attempting something new... It is extremely relevant to have wind knowledge and we should use it when required but for your first on a new object, ??????

The wind behind your back on an antenna is useful - AS LONG AS THE ANTENNA IS HIGH ENOUGH - this is usually the case. I don't recommend it on lower antennas (i.e. with very short canopy rides) especially with deep brake settings as you may suffer surge / pressurisation issues.

r.e. the downdrafts - I wouldn't worry about canopy pressurisation problems that much. What about the pilot chute? The difference in the relative descent rate of your pilot chute and your body during a down draft is much less than in zero wind conditions. This basically means that it takes more altitude for the p/c to "anchor" and start the next part of the deployment sequence. This becames a real problem at low altitudes. Once it anchors, then you have to worry about what Tom says about the canopy. . . oohhh lah lah . . ouch . . . . . rip . . . .

The order that you jump the four objects is dependant on the objects that you have to choose from and the person jumping. Most people agree with S first and B last. and argue with the A and E in between. But it is NOT that simple for individual cases in certain areas.

e.g. KL tower is a B. In terms of exit, freefall, & deployment, I would recommend it over an antenna any day. But your accuracy skill must be somewhat respectable. Why? you typically have 120 degrees of freedom on an antenna - KL tower has virtually 360 degrees (unless you pick you nose for 5 seconds after you open), you have altitude to regain stability if your orientation changes, there are many places to land as long as your flight planning & execution is reasonable, etc.

So the best order for objects depends on your prior experience (freefall / accuracy / canopy / other skills), how high the object is, how overhung the object is, how good the landing area is, how stress free it is, etc.

Most accidents occur during deployment and landing. Hence, choose an object that is diificult to hit on opening with good landing areas, and enough height to utilise the type and configuration of equipment that you are using. Don't just focus on the letters, focus on the particular object and do an accurate risk assessment of each object.

Stay Safe
Have Fun
Good Luck

Dude, without your help , things might have gone differently.
So when are you gonna make a trip out to the West Coast?
~J

hmmm.......it has been a while

NOBut hop n pop the other dude could have a nice delay from that altiBut really depends if the jumpers does know to do it...

SL he he spoiled kid..

Heh...You haven't seen all the shit under and around that F#%&er!
~J

i guess not,is it already an hop n pop jump?

Jump #1 486' S sept 1st 2003
Jump #2 300' E
Jump #3 220' A
attempt Jump #4 200' B did not jump too windy sat on top for a while wind never died down
Jump #4 460' E

still need a B

bump for nvknight04

E-A-B-S

E was done from a 600' cliff with about 40 skydives.
S was done on the 100th base jump.

he he i wasnt the only one to make a repost in this old tread http://dropzone.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

Dunno if it takes you directly to your post if not,you already posted as post #35 in this tread

Dont worry i did the same.. all it means is that we´re old and cant rember.. now when were you up for that beer here at my place

My memory is having a senior moment!

I go both ways

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's really mellow to static line it. But sometimes I like to scare the shit out of myself and feefall it. Good point.

no i mean girls and guys